Expanding the Power of Forensic DNA Databases
Offender DNA database programs are the most effective crime fighting technology available to law enforcement. This webinar will share inspiring stories illustrating the extraordinary power of this tool, and review the latest trends in DNA database program expansion throughout the world. First, Ashley Spence, victim advocate and founder of the DNA Justice Project, will share the inspiring story of how DNA solved the brutal home invasion rape that nearly took her life. She now focuses her efforts on educating the public and policy makers on the importance of forensic DNA. You will hear her perspective on the importance of DNA legislation expansion, as well as current successes, challenges and proposed solutions to maximize the potential of forensic DNA to solve crimes, provide justice and exonerate the innocent. Next, Tim Schellberg, President of Gordon Thomas Honeywell Governmental Affairs, will discuss the rapid expansion on DNA database programs throughout the world. Focusing on DNA database policies, legislation, and trends, he will provide examples that will expand the audience’s perspectives of what offender databases are capable of and the direction they are headed in the future. In this webinar you’ll learn about: •Ashley’s personal testimony on how DNA and an incredible team of heroes put her perpetrator behind bars for nearly 138 years •Why requiring DNA collection for all felony arrests is so important •Challenges with lawfully owed DNA, and how Rapid DNA can help prevent tomorrow’s victim •The latest trends in global DNA database expansion, including Y-STR databases, Rapid DNA, familial searching and genetic genealogy
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Hello and welcome to expanding the power of forensic DNA databases brought to
you by
forensic and sponsored by Thermo Fisher Scientific.
My name is Michelle Taylor, editor and chief of forensic and I will be your
moderator throughout.
For today's webinar, you can earn one hour of continuing education credit.
Following the inclusion of the webinar, you will receive an email with
information on how
to obtain CE Credit Documentation.
We have a great lineup scheduled to present to you today, but before you begin,
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Today, you will be here from Kim Shelberg, president of the Gordon Thomas Honey
well Governmental
Affairs firm.
He manages the daily operations of the firm and provides consultancy services
primarily
in the Washington, D.C. and international divisions of the firm.
For the last 20 years, Shelberg and his firm have become the world's foremost
experts on
forensic DNA database legislation, public policy, and law.
In addition to representing clients in the DNA industry, Shelberg has advised
over 54
and state governments on DNA database legislation, laws, and policies.
Shelberg collaborates with foreign public security ministries, parliaments, and
other law enforcement
forensic organizations on policy and forensic DNA programs on a frequent basis.
We will also hear from Ash Despeites, founder of the DNA Justice Project.
And 19 years old, Ash is with the victim of a brutal home invasion rate that
nearly took
her life.
It was through DNA that our perpetrator was caught and is now serving nearly
138 years
in prison.
Ash is now focused on educating others on the power of DNA to create policy
change that
can provide justice, prevent crimes, and exonerate the innocent.
Ash has worked globally to spark conversations on how to come together to put
an end to sexual
violence and tackle the worldwide sexual assault kit backlog crisis.
She believes that every survivor has an important story to be told and the
courageous voice
to be heard.
Now, with that further ado, I'll hand it over to Tim to get us started.
Thanks, Michelle.
Good to be here, everybody.
And today we are going to be giving a talk related to expanding the power of
DNA databases.
During my talk, I'll give a summary of where we're at in the globe with
forensic DNA databases
and then get into some of the trends of what's taking place now and into the
future.
First of all, let's just remind everybody that these are very powerful programs
to solve
crime, prevent crime, exonerate the innocent, and save the government money.
You know, around the world, the new buzzword with DNA database is what is your
hit rate?
Because we know that the hit rates are determined by the public policy of the
government, of
the legislatures, the Congresses, the ministries that put these programs in
place.
And they know that if they limit the amount of offenders that go in the
database, it diminishes
the impact of the database.
So for this countries that only have sex offenders in the database, it's very
rare for them
to even get above a 5% hit rate.
It goes up when you put more offenders in, for example, when all sex offenders,
violent
criminals, and property crimes go into the database, the hit rate can be at 20
%.
And then if, like in the US, where it's mostly all crimes, convicted criminals,
and some
arrestees, it can get up to 45%.
But we do know that the states that have mature all arrestee databases, hit
rates climbing
above 60%, in fact, the United Kingdom has a hit rate well above 65%.
And these programs, again, huge impacts.
They reduce crime, they save money, and there's some great research,
particularly out there
by Jennifer Gillowiak, that shows what the power of these databases to reduce
crime and
save money.
In one area, she looked at deterrence, and she said that when comparing two non
-ecarcerating
individuals in which one person had DNA collected upon being charged, and the
other person did
not, the person with the DNA collected was 42% less likely to commit another
crime during
that first year of being in the database.
We also show that every time you increase your database size by 10%, you have a
reduction,
for example, in 5%, fewer murders, 6%, fewer rape, save percent, fewer vehicle
thefts.
She even looked at the savings to both society and government, and determined
that for every
time you put somebody in the database, you actually save $20,000.
So great research to look at, to show the value of these databases to reduce
crime and
save money.
So of course, you know, we're now 27 years into having databases.
The United Kingdom opened up the first national DNA criminal offender database
in 1995, and
along with a few other countries around the same time, they produced a lot of
data, and
the rest of the world moved forward.
And right now, we have 59 countries that have passed forensic DNA database
legislation or
policy and have implemented on some sort of a national level.
And here they are.
Here are the 59 countries around the world that have done so.
We estimate there's about 150 million offender samples globally in these
various databases.
And as you can see, most of these countries come from the developed world.
There are a few exceptions, but most are from the developed world.
But now let's look at the trends.
And the first trend we'll talk about is the developing world.
And it's the current trend is the developing world wants in on the action of
these databases.
And if you look at the legislation, the working groups, the evaluation
committees that have
been set up in the last couple of years, it's all coming from the developed
world.
And I'll just give you a few examples of recent activity just in the last year.
India, in our world's second largest by population country, just passed after
about a 15 year
debate, their legislation.
So they now have legislation in place that authorized the collection of DNA
from convicted
criminal offenders.
They're working on regulatory framework now.
So secondary legislation will come.
But that initial legislation that got over the hurdle of taking the DNA is now
in place.
And El Salvador, a country in Central America, of course, they passed one of
the strongest
DNA database legislation laws in the world.
It's based off the United Kingdom and the Malaysia law, which requires
everybody convicted or
arrested to go into the database.
They also have quite the impressive crime lab that they've put in place there
and are
working to implement that as we speak.
In Indonesia, the fifth largest country in the world, they for the very first
time this
year put together a working group and are officially kicked off the discussion
of developing
the DNA legislation.
And finally, Ukraine, in the midst of the war, they actually introduced and
passed criminal
and humanitarian DNA databases where they could, for the purposes of
identifying those
killed in the war.
And they're actually working to implement that.
So a lot going on in the developed world.
And here's just a few more countries, just a sampling of ones that have passed
legislation
or in some form of implementation over the last couple of years.
The next trend I'll talk about is something that I call plan B DNA searching
alternatives.
So these are the things that when you don't get a match in your STR database
for a crime
scene, what else can you do to try to get a match?
And of course, there's genetic genealogy as a plan B, voluntary mass screens,
familial
searching and why STR databases.
So it's quite expected that law enforcement is going to pursue plan B searching
when you
don't get a hit and the government run STR databases.
Why?
Let's just take the United States.
So we estimate that United States on average, if you look at all birth states,
the hit rate
is somewhere around between 35 and 45%.
But even if it's 45%, that's 55% of the cases being searched against it that do
not get a
match.
And law enforcement is not going to give up.
If they have DNA, they're going to want to do something about it.
If they don't get a match in that database, they're going to ask, what is the
plan B?
Is there anywhere else we can go with that DNA?
And at the moment, the non-government controlled plan B DNA database searching
has the upper
hand on the plan Bs coming out of the government databases.
And that is, as we know, because of genetic genealogy.
I mean, we all saw it with the Golden State Killer, you know, that you all
probably know
by now works.
The 23andMe companies, people do that voluntarily.
And then they upload it to a public database, which allows the police to search
it for an
match into distant relatives and then do genetic genealogy to hone in on the
suspect.
And of course, this came to us through the Golden State Killer case.
This case was actually part of the hit of the year program that Gordon Thomas
Honeywell
operates every year.
This was a 2018 case that was submitted.
And it made national, international news.
And you know, today, after the lead of the Golden State Killer, there's
hundreds, in
fact, over 400 cases that have used genetic genealogy in that plan B method to
identify
suspects in some of the most notable unsolved crimes in the United States
history.
So incredible tool.
But I think that, you know, we have to recognize there are detractors and risk
factors to non-government
plan B during DNA database searching alternatives.
And of course, those are things like this.
There are privacy advocates that don't like the idea that they're searching a
non-government
databases without any guidelines.
The regulators are starting to take harder looks at it.
We saw this in a few states trying to regulate genetic genealogy in the
legislatures.
The courts so far so good, but you can't, you know, there might be a case that
turns
that around.
And the other risk factor, as a term I came up with, with the life codes effect
for those
of on the webinar today that are old enough to know, remember life codes, they
were the
original DNA company.
So this was, they were the ones that developed the home brew of DNA testing.
And if you were a police department that had a DNA case, you had to send them
to life codes
or a company like them, and they would run it against their home brew.
They wouldn't say how they got the result.
They would just testify in court that the result was accurate.
But there were detractors with that.
The government wanted from the highest levels and even the lowest levels in the
crime lab
didn't like that this was a, they felt that DNA should be a public science and
a public
service and should be done in a government way.
And when DNA went to standardization, companies life life codes went out of
business.
So we have to make sure we understand that these are some threats to non-
government DNA
searching.
And, but I don't think that needs to be a problem.
We need, we need to protect the non-government search because genetic genealogy
is great.
And it's, it should be used when you can't get a result in the government
databases.
But if there's a concern, I think the west way to handle that is to make our
government
databases, whether Plan A or Plan B extremely successful, so you only have a
small percentage
of cases left that need to go through the non-government plans.
So there's a few solutions to this to, to limit the number of cases that have
to go through
non-government searching.
First and foremost is we got to perfect our Plan A. I mean, if we're only
getting a 40%
hit rate in our databases in the United States, why can't we be like the United
Kingdom and
get a 60% hit or 65% hit rate?
So we need to look at the laws, the arrestee laws in our states, make sure
those are perfected
and try to get those as high as possible.
We also need to look at familial searching and allow that more and we'll talk
about that
in a minute.
And perhaps even look at why STR database in which number of countries are
doing now
and we'll talk about that in a bit as well.
So let's take a look first at arrestees.
You know, arrestees around the globe, the trend is certainly to go straight to
arrestees,
not wasting the time on lower databases because they want the high hit rate.
So in the last few years, all the legislation that's been introduced has been
for arrestee
testing in these new developing or developed worlds, or development developing
world.
There are some exceptions and maybe Ashley will talk about this in her talk.
You know, the United States, they need to move forward with arrestee testing,
but over
the last 10 years, it's been a struggle.
And I think a lot of that is some of the politics, you know, the far right, the
far left, kind
of get hung up on things like DNA data basing, but the more people like Ashley
and others
that come in and explain the details, hopefully that can be overcome.
The second thing that's on Plan B for United States or the databases, familial
searching.
And I think that now we know how it can be done in a very privacy conscious
method and
the UK has really set the standard here.
They limit it to basically the most serious crimes.
You have to apply to a government board to get approval to do it and it's under
the
judicial review.
So with those steps involved, I think familial searching is very appropriate.
And if you're not getting a search in your YSTR, why not go to familial
searching under
the restricted environment to even to try to up that hit rate just a little bit
more.
And you know, there's great cases in this regard.
Here's a hit of the year case that was submitted just a couple of years ago, a
young woman
in the United Kingdom.
And in this case, the DNA story was basically the killer's daughter shoved
somebody in her
apartment and that got her in the database.
And they took that and ran a familial search and it matched to the killer's DNA
from the
crime scene and that solved this case.
That's the power of familial searching and it can be done and that, as I
mentioned, a
very regulated way.
Here's a case that was highlighted in last year's DNA program, hit of the year
program
and it was a case in Washington State where if they would have run familial
searching,
they could have solved this case 20 years earlier.
So these are examples of why we need to have more familial searching and if you
do it in
a regulated way, controlled way, it's actually less privacy violations of what
you get in
the non-government searching such as genetic genealogy.
Then we have YSTR database.
Same thing.
I mean, you could probably set up these databases to increase your hits.
This is starting to happen globally.
We're seeing it in China, Singapore, Italy.
There's other countries going down this path.
But if they do, I think you need to do it under a very strict regulatory
framework.
It should be just like the familial searching framework where it's only allowed
for certain
cases after you go through certain hoops to make sure that the public trust and
databases
maintained.
Just to show you, there's some really interesting cases on YSTR databases.
Here's a case out of China, 2008 was submitted to the hit of the year.
Mother and daughter were murdered in Guangzhou.
They left DNA at the crime scene.
Servicid but there were no hits against the STR database.
But China has set up quite the large YSTR database.
Over the last 10 years, they have basically added 10 million samples.
So in 2019, they searched this gentleman that was arrested for some minor crime
He didn't hit the YSTRs but he didn't hit the STRs but he hit the YSTRs against
the
killer so they knew that they were related.
Then of course, the authorities said, "Well, let's take a look at the father
and the uncle."
But they weren't the killer, but they were related.
But a unique thing happened.
They also found that the father, the five uncles, the killer in June were half
siblings.
So obviously, this gave the clue to the police.
Something must be going on here.
Turns out the grandfather, the mother had a relationship to produce a secret
child that
they put up for adoption and he turned up to be the killer.
Here they are arresting him in the Guangzhou airport.
This is the type of thing you could do if you were allowed to use YSTR database
But again, I think it needs to be under strict control.
The next trend I'll talk about, I have a couple more, is that we're starting to
question
particularly in the United States the lack of DNA testing of property crimes.
And that happens some in the United States but not much.
And when you look at statistics between United States and the UK, you really
understand what's
going on here.
The US population is 4.9 times greater than the UK.
Therefore, if adjusted for population, the United Kingdom would have 3.7
million hits
compared to the 580,000 in the United States.
What's causing this is, well, they do have a higher hit rate.
But more about what this is about is United Kingdom tests everything, not just
the violent
crimes and sexual assaults.
They're testing all property crimes.
As you can see, they've got 570,000 crime scenes in the database.
We only have 580,000.
And the reason for that and the adjusted for population, that's quite the
difference.
The reason for that is they're testing property crimes.
And this leads into rapid DNA, which is the next trend I'll talk about.
We're seeing a significant increase in the rise of rapid DNA globally and
particularly
in the United States.
The FBI has an ambitious plan for rapid and booking stations, which they were
happy to
announce that Louisiana became the first state.
Just last month, I believe, to start booking stations and many more to come.
In fact, it's based in East Baton Rouge Parish.
And they've already had three high profile hits just in the first couple of
weeks of
that program.
So rapid at booking stations, certainly going to start taking off here in the
next few
years.
But the thing about it is the police don't want to wait for booking station.
We're seeing lots of sheriffs and police chiefs from around the country just
starting
to use rapid for basic casework.
And they're figuring out ways to do it that are appropriate.
The FBI is not ready for casework at the national level to go up for national
searching.
So what a couple of states have done, I think there's about three or four.
I'll highlight Arizona and Connecticut.
They basically set up separate databases of their state data of criminal-offend
ered profiles
that they own.
They take it outside of the CODIS system, set it up separately.
And so when police officers want to run a casework, a lot of times, mostly
property
crimes against that database and get a match, that's how they've been doing it.
They usually take two swabs, one's for the rapid investigative lead and the
other goes
to the lab when needed to go to court.
Obviously, this is for mostly single-source samples, but it's been pretty
effective.
And we're going to see more states go this direction hopefully within the next
couple
of years the FBI has national standards that can allow the casework to also go
up to search
the whole night.
The final trend I'll mention is just on privacy.
Of course, when you set up DNA database programs, you always have to deal with
the privacy
issues to maintain public trust in the databases.
And the biggest trend I see in privacy is that most of the countries now
introducing
legislation are requiring the destruction of the biological profile for
reference samples
after it gets profiled and put into the database.
If you destroy that biological sample, you keep everybody comfortable because
they know
the government can't use it for a purpose outside of solving crime or
identifying missing
people.
And so that is the trend, I believe, of the 59 countries that have database
laws in place
now.
About 20 of them have this requirement and growing.
So anything we can do to increase the amount of privacy that are in these
databases, to
encourage public trust to allow us to do more searching, more searching in the
government
databases will create great things and solve crime.
So with that, I just want to make one quick announcement.
We have, I showed you some examples of cases from the hit of the year program.
We are announcing now that our submissions for the 2023 hit of the year program
are due
by October 7th just next month.
And please log in to DNAhitoftheyear.com to get the criteria and submit your
cases.
As you know, we usually get hundreds of cases submitted and we summarize these
cases and
we give them in an annual presentation.
It really helps to show the rest of the world the value of these DNA databases
through real
cases.
So appreciate it.
And I look forward to handing it over to Ashley.
So it's all, all to you, Ashley.
Thank you so much, Tim.
I will never forget when I heard the words, "Kevinly, Francois, you are
sentenced to nearly
138 years in prison."
I stood in the back of the courtroom and my head fell into my hands and I began
to solve.
I cried not just for the pain and the justice that I had felt over those 13
years.
I cried for the protection and the safety that I finally felt for myself, my
children,
my family.
And I cried because I knew this person would never be able to harm another
woman again.
It was in a moment that I was so grateful for, but also one that I never
thought I would
have to endure.
I came from a very loving family.
My parents actually just celebrated their 45th wedding anniversary this last
week.
They instilled so many beautiful life lessons within me and my siblings and we
always felt
safe and protected and cared for.
But nothing.
I mean nothing could have per-nothing.
I mean nothing could have prepared them or for me for what was to come.
I was 19 years old so excited to begin my sophomore year at Arizona State
University.
This picture was actually taken just mere hours before my entire life was
shattered.
I went to bed that night in my apartment after my friends left as I always did
thinking that
I was safe in my own home.
Only this night I wasn't.
In the middle of the night, an intruder came into my apartment while I was
sleeping smothered
my face with a pillow and began to beat violently and tear my clothes off.
I initially thought it was a dream and I tried to wake myself up frantically
and I quickly
realized, "Oh my gosh, this is not a dream, this is real life and I need to
fight."
And it was in that moment that I began to fight with everything in me that I
was nearly
killed.
I was beaten so severely and the pillow was suffocating my face so tightly that
I couldn't
find air and I knew in that moment.
I could continue to fight and die or I had to let it happen to try to live.
So for hours throughout the night I was horrifically terrorized, violently
raped and I never saw
his face.
I was fortunate enough to have survived the attack but before he left he said,
"Do not
remove the pillow until I leave and do not tell anybody because I will be
watching you
and if you tell anyone I will kill you."
When he left I threw the pillow off.
I frantically looked for my phone, he had taken it so I broke my window, jumped
out
the window and then just ran to my roommate's door and just banged it down
screaming, "I've
been raped, call 911, I've been raped."
I worked with law enforcement.
I had all of the forensic exams done, I worked day and night with detectives.
I even tried to go back to school but the fear, the fear was paralyzing.
Was he in class?
Was he watching me?
I didn't know what he looked like.
He told me he was.
If he was then he saw that I had talked to detectives.
He's going to kill me.
You know the case eventually went nowhere, there was no weeds and it just
became too
much so I dropped out of school and I moved to Newport Beach, California where
I thought
I would start fresh and be by the ocean.
I eventually relocated back to my hometown of Austin, Texas and it was in 2010
that I
received the shocking news that there had been a DNA match in my case after
seven years.
Ironically I moved to Newport Beach to escape this man but in reality I moved
to the very
place where he was from.
They found him just a few blocks from where I had lived all those years in
Newport Beach.
He was getting arrested for another offense and then he tried to resist the
officer of
felony and thank goodness they have the law in California that upon all felony
arrests
DNA is taken.
So they took his cheek swab, they eventually uploaded it into CODA, it's the
national database
and bam it hit a match back to my case in Arizona all those years before.
I never saw his face.
Over five years past trial happens and it was purely on the evidence of DNA
that they were
able to prove that it was 38 trillion times more likely it was this man's DNA
on me than
anybody else's, 38 trillion.
When I saw him in court I did not even recognize his face.
He was a stalker and he was a stranger.
They also were able to prove through YSTR analysis that when they extracted the
Y-P-R
chromosome from my ex they found his DNA all over my body and guess what it
matched up
to every story I told detectives and law enforcement immediately after my
attack.
When they arrested him they found a shed behind his home full of women's
underwear and
licenses and identification cards photographs from all over the world.
I wasn't the first and for seven years I wasn't the last but because of DNA and
because of
this team of heroes these are the actual people that saved my life.
That is my law enforcement officer, my saying, the detective, the DNA analyst,
the prosecutor,
the power of forensic DNA and these incredible heroes have him now behind bars
for nearly
138 years and he can never harm another person again.
So I got justice which was amazing and that's part of the reason why I'm here
but right
after trial I began to want to learn about forensic DNA.
I didn't know about it before honestly in DNA laws and what you're looking at
now is
a map as it currently stands of the states that collect DNA for all violent,
all felony
arrests, violent felony arrests and burglaries and then others that just
collect on conviction.
So why is this important?
Well let's look at the map here.
So my attack happened in Arizona which is in the light blue but he was arrested
in California
thankfully which is in the dark blue where they collect for all felony arrests.
Had my rapist been arrested in Arizona near campus where he raped me, there was
a trial
right after mine scheduled where another woman was raped at Arizona campus.
He would still be out there today as the law stands free to rape and harm other
women.
In the officer would not have qualified as an offense that they would have
taken his
DNA for.
This also stands true if he were to be arrested in the state where I live now
and raise my
children in Texas.
So this matters.
In states like New Mexico when they began to expand the DNA collection law to
all felony
arrests they saw an 83% match rate increase.
So you have to remember these aren't just statistics, these are numbers, these
are lives
that we can save by keeping these very violent, very serial offenders off the
streets.
We need to do it early.
How many lives have to be lost?
How many women have to be raped before we get them off the streets?
It is said that one in six women will be the victim of an attempted or
completed rape
in their lifetime but I'm here to tell you that as well.
You know I lived in silence really for 13 years even going to trial.
I was pregnant with my daughter and I was flying back and forth and my friends,
people
that worked for me, no one knew what I was doing.
It was all a big secret.
So after trial I said you know what, I can no longer live in silence.
And I started to confide in people one by one and it wasn't one out of six.
It was seven out of eight of the women that I knew that I loved, somebody had
known for
over a decade that shared in return a story of inter-sexual assault.
Some had never told anyone, seven out of eight I thought how can this be?
We have to speak up, we have to start addressing this.
Rain did a study and what they found was that out of 1,000 sexual assaults only
310 are
reported to police.
50 of those 310 lead to an arrest, 28 lead to a felony conviction and 25 lead
to a conviction
resulting in prison.
So let's just break this map down.
Okay, so what does that mean?
It means out of 1,000 rates 97.5% of rapists go free.
So we're saying less than 3% of rapists are paying time for the crimes that
they commit
against people.
This must change.
So we know that there are great challenges and what we also know is that these
offenders,
these very violent serial offenders, they're not just committing one rape.
They're not committing a homicide.
They are doing lower level crimes along the way.
A case Western Reserve University study showed that an overwhelming majority of
both serial
and one-time sexual offenders had felony-level criminal histories.
We need to get them early.
So the study also showed that 74% of serial rapists had at least one prior
felony offense,
but 95% of all serial rapists had a subsequent felony arrest.
So this actually shows why this legislation, why these policies are so
important.
We need to catch some early.
How many other lives have to be lost before we catch them?
So those are some challenges, but what are our successes, right?
And I think DNA databases are such a great success.
The combined DNA index system of CODIS is one of the most successful
investigative tools
for the U.S. law enforcement.
It was of October of 2021 that they found CODIS had produced over 587,000 hits,
assisting
in more than 574,000 investigations.
It's amazing.
So it doesn't just benefit law enforcement.
This has a direct benefit to public safety.
We've also kind of touched on how the expansion of DNA collection, it has
brought in the CODIS
database.
So this has helped with criminal investigations.
This has led to more prosecutions.
We have the right people, and now this is critically important.
We want to know that the right person is behind bars.
I wanted to know for certain.
I never saw his face.
I did not want the wrong person to be behind bars.
That is a nightmare.
But to know that DNA is truth, DNA is science, and that the right person is
being imprisoned
for the crimes that they committed, that is the most important.
We also know that CODIS is safe, it's protected, and it's extremely private.
So since this, I have started a foundation, the DNA Justice Project, and I have
focused
my efforts on forensic DNA, and one of the biggest questions I get is about
privacy.
There is a lot of misunderstanding.
So people think that it's like 23 and me that the DNA database with CODIS and
that their
entire DNA genome will go into the system, but that's not true.
So there are 3 billion markers that make up your DNA genome, okay?
Genetics scientists pick 20.
So they only have 20 markers, and they don't say anything about me.
You wouldn't know that I have brown hair, that I have brown eyes, where I live,
what
my name is, if I'm predisposed to any diseases, it says nothing like that.
And what you're looking at on the screen right now is actually what would be
entered into
CODIS, how it would be labeled.
So at the top you have the originating lab identifier, and then where the
specimen ID
number is, I want you to see that, that's not a name, that's where a name could
go, but
instead is just a specimen ID number.
So your name is not even put into there.
Below that are the 20 markers, and then you have the analysts that did the DNA.
It's so protected, and I believe so much in this, that this is actually the
back of my
business card.
I'm going to send this out all over the world now, it is online, okay?
It is that protected because there are 20 markers I had my DNA taken, if I were
to get
arrested for a felony, if it were to be uploaded into CODIS.
This is what you would see, except for obviously there's more because there's,
would be these
20 markers.
So it only, it not only does it provide justice, does it give us certainty, but
it also protects
those that are arrested, which is very, very important.
And Tim spoke to the crime reduction, but one thing that I do want to say is
when people
know that they have to pay the time for the crime, this study in 2020 that I
read also
showed that when people knew that they would have repercussions, some of them
actually got
their lives together.
They decided, you know what, I'm not going to take this path of repeat
offending, of
harming.
I'm going to change my path and I'm going to take care of my families and work
to get
a job.
So this benefits public safety.
So we also struggle, right?
We have these amazing DNA databases, but one area of challenge, great challenge
is lawfully
ODNA.
So these are DNA samples that are lawfully owed already, as the law stands that
we should
have, but we don't.
So we have a systemic problem nationwide of failing to collect and process
these samples
of offenders.
What does this mean?
So the lack of the DNA profiles and proper DNA testing leaves these people free
to harm
others in this very moment as we sit here on the streets.
This also leaves people the wrong people in prison for crimes that they did not
commit.
What causes a lawfully ODNA?
Why don't we have it?
You know, we should.
Why don't we?
There are a variety of things.
It can be from misport hearings, ignored court orders.
Some people just don't show up.
They flee.
An unclear status, people are unsure.
And you know, also human error, that is one, a manual or flawed intake process.
This is a huge problem.
And what research has shown is that by state, state to state in the United
States, there
are approximately 30 to 50,000 lawfully owed samples that are missing that we
should have.
Now, these aren't just samples.
This isn't just a statistic again.
These are people that have committed crimes that owe their DNA that are most
likely connected
to other unsolved crimes that we could be solving.
Not only giving justice, but then also preventing people from being harmed.
Every minute that we wait, another life is at state.
So what is the solution?
Well, one is 10 touched on.
Rapid DNA is very exciting this new technology.
Within 90 minutes in a booking station, you can test to see if you have a
qualified offender
sample.
If their DNA within 90 minutes is linked to any other unsolved crimes in the
national
database.
The Louisiana State Police Crime Lab and East Baton Rouge Sheriff's Office, you
know,
they're the first ones to be rolling this out.
And 10 touched on that there might be three hits.
I am really, really excited to keep watching this data and to see what lives
are saved,
what justice is provided through this technology.
So why rapid?
Well, you know, again, we can potentially avoid them fleeing and we can know
with the
90 minutes that they're linked to another crime.
We also can use this to help eliminate the wrongfully accused, help exonerate.
Think of the lives that we will save, the justice that we will provide them.
And also there is a cost savings here when you're looking at the time that it
takes for
detectives to eliminate these people.
I mean, my detectives said that they spent months, months and months, you know,
getting
hundreds of people's DNA collected.
This can do it quickly.
This helps to eliminate loopholes in the DNA with lawfully owed samples.
Just as we spoke, if you're getting it in real time, you're not going to hit
these issues.
And this is really important to me personally.
This can also help assist with rape backlog issues.
So I am really, really inspired by the work that is being done with rape, pit
reform all
over.
And so what we need to do is enhance the DNA database because we can do all
this incredible
work working on rape, pit reform and wanting to test them.
But if we don't have the DNA to test it with, we're not going to get the
matches.
We're not going to get the closures.
We're going to have these rapists going free on the streets.
That the DNA can also help courts make really informed, smart and just
decisions on bail
and bond.
When we are talking about criminals being on the street, we know time is of the
essence.
Every minute counts when you're thinking about someone's life being saved.
I can tell you all that I have battled a lot of struggles trying to overcome
what I endured.
But the number one thing that haunted me over those seven years when my
perpetrator was
free, I had survived, but every night I would try to go to bed.
I literally could hear the silenced muffled screams of his next victim.
The women's screams would just play in my head and I knew he was out there.
I am now a mother of a son and a daughter.
My daughter is actually the center one smiling with her friends.
I know if we maximize the use of forensic DNA in DNA technology, we can prevent
one
of them from becoming the victim of tomorrow.
That is what drives me to be here.
That is what motivates me to be here.
I also have started as I briefly touched on the DNA Justice Project.
It's a foundation that is purely focused on education and policy making with
forensic
DNA.
But I want to say that if you are on this webinar right now and you have an
interest
in this and you're in this field, that screenshot of all of my heroes, the
people that worked
on my case, you all are my heroes too.
I am so abundantly grateful for the work that you have dedicated your lives to.
We are not just DNA samples, we are humans with stories and lives that you are
saving.
From the bottom of my heart, I just want to thank you.
Thank you for saving my life and thank you for doing the work to do everything
you can
to protect my daughter's life tomorrow.
I would love to stay in contact and I look forward to engaging in conversations
with
you all.
Thank you so much to Tim Schulberg.
You are always fantastic.
Thank you to Forensic Mac for having this and to Thermophisher for bringing us
all together.
So I'm really honored and Michelle, we will pass this back to you and we look
forward
to connecting with everyone.
Thank you Tim and Ashley for those interesting and informative presentations.
We do have time for Q&A now.
So if you have a question, please submit it through the Q&A panel on your
screen.
And while we do that and wait for everyone to submit their questions, I have
just a few
poll questions for you.
Our first one.
Does your agency use alternative database search approaches?
Yes, we have used YFTRs and/or familial search.
Yes, we have used genetic genealogy.
No, but we plan to use YFTRs and/or familial search in the future.
No, but we plan to use genetic genealogy in the future.
No, and no plans to use alternative approaches.
Go ahead and put in your answer and we will take a look.
All right.
It looks like, oh, it's some evenly split.
The most is yes.
We have used YFTRs and/or familial search.
And then we've got almost the same on genetic genealogy.
So definitely alternative database searches are becoming more and more popular.
Last one.
Would you like to receive more information?
Three variations of yes and a no, not at this time.
Go ahead and put in your answer and then we'll give everyone a second before we
proceed
to Q&A with Tim and Ashley.
All right, Ashley, you're up first.
So when you talk to people about DNA databases, what's the most frustrating
misconception you
encounter and how do you deal with it?
Thank you, Great Puts.
You know, it's frustrating, but I also think that it's just a lack of
understanding of
how the database system actually works.
I can't fault anyone because I didn't know before I stepped into this work
until my story
aligned and I survived what I did.
But it really is just wanting people to understand how protected and how
private the database
is.
CODIS has been around since 1998 and we have never known of a breach or anyone
that says
that they have been harmed by this system.
And on the other end, we know many people who would probably still be here
today had
we been maximizing and utilizing the database.
So it really is just getting people to understand how protected it is and how
it works.
Absolutely, yeah.
Okay.
What do you think?
Another question for you then.
What do you think could be done to increase the reporting level of rate, you
know, to
make the victims feel safer as they go through the process?
That's a wonderful question as well.
I have this conversation a lot actually.
And the first thing is as scary it is, you know, speaking out about rape and
sexual assault
in the way that we don't have to feel like we have to whisper because we still
live in
the day and age.
We're hard to speak about.
It's scary.
The fear, the significance of shame.
So it's really working to break those big months.
The second thing is I touched on this very briefly, but the team of heroes in
my case,
I was so fortunate because everybody was trauma trained or like the law
enforcement
officer that picked me up.
When he arrived, he made me feel safe and believed.
And the same, my forensic nurse, when I went to leave into those examinations,
I did not
even remember how invasive those exams and DNA collections were.
All I remembered was how she made me feel and that was safe and at ease.
So I really think the more that we can speak about this, the more that people
can feel brave
and have to use their voices, the more that others will speak out, but also how
people
are treated along the way.
I was lucky that he's in prison for now 138 years, but even if every single
victim is
treated with dignity and respect and care, I believe that more people would
start to speak
out with that alone.
Absolutely.
The same nurses are getting even more money and funding and stuff, so that's
definitely
a good thing.
Yes, because a lot of it, again, is education.
People aren't trying to not do things incorrectly.
People are working really, really hard, but a lot of times they're just not the
education
or the understanding or the experience.
So the more that we can share this knowledge, the better.
For sure.
All right, Kim, we'll turn to you now.
We've got a couple of questions for you.
Great.
Can you comment on why so few jurisdictions utilize Y-S-T-R analysis?
Yeah, I think, first of all, I'm going to kind of assume and clarify the
question.
I think even from your polling, a lot of jurisdictions are using Y-S for a
number of
reasons on their casework.
I think the question might be more why are so few actually data basing Y-S like
they do
with STRs?
I put up a slide with China, Singapore, Italy, and a few others that are in
development.
If that's the question, the reason is, I think that when you have a database of
Ys, you're
not hitting on the criminal.
You're hitting on all of his male relatives.
So you're opening the pool of people to be investigated that really had nothing
to do
with the crime, kind of like in that China case.
And so I think the natural reaction is just to kind of pull back a little bit.
That's making DNA too broad, like we have with familial searching, particularly
in the
U.S., with only a handful of jurisdictions allowing it.
I guess the follow-up to that is that if we're starting to move, particularly
in the U.S.,
to genetic genealogy, there's not a whole lot different.
In genetic genealogy, you're opening things up to investigate people and get to
your
suspect and having to investigate people that weren't part of the crime.
And so maybe there's a strategy there where these countries that want to go
down this
path can do it, but in a very controlled manner, and maybe it would be just
like genetic genealogy
in that regard.
So it's going to take a while for countries to understand that and get the
protocols in
place to do it carefully, and that's why we see so few countries doing it
originally.
Of course.
Another something that you mentioned earlier was that not many states and
countries allow
familial searching.
So what are your thoughts on how many more cases could be resolved if familial
searching
was allowed?
I think a lot.
Again, and it would only be with the serious crimes because all the countries
and even
the states that allow it in the U.S., it's only for the most violent and
serious crimes.
And if you keep trying and our databases are building, right?
I mean, just 10 years ago, our databases barely hit above 20%.
Now they're hitting over 40%.
Imagine if you do familiar searching on some of those, you would solve a lot of
these cases.
And the list goes on and on.
I mean, if you look at the cases that are submitted to DNA hit of the year, the
big ones
we talk about, if you go deep into those cases like the case in Washington
State, you see
that if they would have done familial searching, they could have gotten a lead
way earlier
in the investigation.
So it's not for all cases.
You got to have a good, careful procedure in place, but you would significantly
get
more suspects if you allowed familial searching on those serious cases.
Okay.
What sort of programs would you recommend to get more reference samples
collected and
analyzed for missing persons' cases?
Oh, well, you know, that's an interesting question.
I think the US is a good example of a country that has, you know, the top DNA
database
programs in the world.
But if you look at our missing person system, I mean, that's been in place for
a long time.
It's not that large.
There aren't a lot of people in it.
And I think two things are making the US system, which has the perfect
infrastructure behind
it, but not a lot of samples in it compared to other countries.
And one thing is that there's not a state laws requiring people to, human
remains to
go into the database, right?
If you look at all the human remains around the corners of medical examiners'
offices
around the country, I've seen the numbers.
I can't recall them right now, but it's quite low of how many of them have
actually been
processed and put into the code is missing person system.
So that's one problem.
We need state laws to mandate over a certain amount of time that those human
remains go
into that database.
Secondly, we don't seem to do a good job at advertising through public service
announcements
to the families to get their samples into the database to find the people that
have
gone missing.
I've never seen a public service announcement about it anywhere in the country.
I'm sure I know the law enforcement has procedures when they meet with people
that have reported
missing.
They're told about this database, but I doubt there's a whole lot of follow up.
So I think we need a public service program to advertise this to the people
that have
lost loved ones to get into the database so they can start matching.
And I say this because I've seen what's going to happen in Guatemala this next
year.
The government's coming in with a program to just do that.
They're going to put billboards or news articles or news advertisements, radio
to promote
to the people that have people go missing in Guatemala to get into the database
so they
can help identify their loved ones.
So that would increase a lot of hits in the US if we had those types of
programs.
Interesting.
Australia is doing something similar to that.
So maybe eventually it'll make its way to the US.
Next question.
Do you have any more information you can share about the Louisiana State Police
utilization
of rapid DNA for arresting?
I'll take a shot at that and Ashley, maybe you've got some information too.
I have the most information but this is what I know which is pretty exciting.
As you know, the Congress created a law that allows arrestee samples to go up
into the
national database and the FBI has worked very hard to make this happen.
But it's taking time because you have a lot of technical infrastructure that
needs to
coordinate between the state AFA systems and DNA to make this work.
However, Louisiana is the very first state.
They actually turned one on and it was in East Baton Rouge and I believe it was
about
two weeks ago that they actually flipped a switch.
Their plan is to start expanding it to other parishes, their counties really
soon.
So they're well on their way.
I know there's a couple of three other states that are very close to doing
things similar.
But from what we're hearing out there is that this moment of Louisiana
announcing to
the country that they're doing this has a lot of interest from policymakers and
law
enforcement alike right now.
So we're going to start seeing the Louisiana program start expanding and
congratulations
the FBI, they've worked really hard to make this happen.
Perfect.
Yes, I'll just add on to that.
To me it's really, really exciting to see them actually roll this program out.
And as we said, I'm excited to see the numbers that come back of the hits that
we're going
to get from this because we know that this technology is good and that it works
And so it's really exciting that they have everything ready to go in booking
agencies.
I do believe that the state police said that they hope to expand this new
system to another
three locations in the state.
But I don't think that they have collected the where in the timeline yet.
But we know that we're looking to just grow and expand this.
And I hope to see that in every state and I'm neighboring in Texas.
So one day that is a goal and dream is a mom in this state too that we will
have that
as well.
Yeah, and it's exciting with all this happening.
It's also a message to the states actually that where you work to try to get
more states
to pass arrest laws so they don't miss out on these opportunities.
These great hits that happen where they can go not let this person back out in
the community
on bail or whatever.
Absolutely.
If you can get the policy in place, you can get the green light and hopefully
get that
going.
Some good work ahead.
Perfect.
We have a few questions about samples and privacy.
So let's get to those before we run out of time which always happens so quickly
with
all these great questions.
So what, you know, during collection of samples, how is privacy and integrity
in the process
maintained to ensure that these DNA samples aren't misused in some way, shape,
or form?
You cut out there.
I'm sorry.
Can you repeat that?
Absolutely.
So we just have a few questions about privacy and samples.
So when law enforcement collects these samples, how are privacy and integrity
in the collection
and storage process maintained to ensure that these samples aren't misused
somewhere down
the road?
Well, we'll start that off and I think Ashley mentioned it as saying, you know,
there's
150 million samples that have been actually collected and tested and put into
country
databases.
And out of 150 million, I've never heard of one of those being misused.
So we'll start with that premise.
So it's, we need to, the public has concern and we need to protect that, but we
just have
not seen any misused.
But we need to keep the confidence of the public in mind.
So any laws you can have that protect privacy of the samples and pretty much
every state
in the US has these things like only certain levels of rank are allowed to in
the lab or
allowed to have access to them.
These documentation requirements, actually, criminal penalties for misuse.
So laws, protocols, those types of things, anything we can do there to protect
the sample,
even though we know that there's not going to be a whole lot of problems, we
still got
to have the laws in place.
Perfect.
Actually, anything to add there?
No, but I wholeheartedly agree it's so important, you know, that we do have
these laws and these
standards in place and they are there.
And if there ever is anything that we need to learn and grow from, we will, but
as you
would say, since 1998, we don't know of anything, anyone that has been harmed
through the CODA
system now, but we always need to be learning.
And that's why I think that these sort of gatherings are so important in being
involved
in the forensic science community on how can we continue not just from a policy
, but
from a forensic science standpoint to be sure that we are doing the best to
protect and
DNA is the truth when it is used right and we want the right people to be
caught for these
crimes and DNA is science.
Absolutely.
So following up on that, we have a kind of interesting question related.
You know, obviously, we see all these cold cases get solved and it's because
DNA from
the crime scenes were collected, preserved, and stored and now with advanced
technology
and things like familial searching, genetic genealogy, you know, that gives us
some more
options.
But Tim, we'll go with you first.
Can you comment on the relative value of privacy protection, you know, in terms
of looking
at it through sample destruction post testing?
So once you have your sample, you test it and then you destroy it, verse the
value of
retaining that sample and doing additional testing either soon or later.
Sure.
Yeah.
And I see we're running out of time, so I'll be quick on that.
But the sample destruction in the US is not quite frankly needed.
We've set up a kind of our program where it's not something that's required in
our country.
It's mostly in these other countries that are having troubles with it and it's
a trade-off.
You can either, like I've seen these countries say, "Well, we're not going to
pass the bill,"
and then they look at this clause of destruction and that gives the politicians
what they feel
like they need to allow the bill to pass.
I say take it because we would have no database unless you throw in these
privacy things like
sample destruction.
Take that ever came to the US, I think the reason why we have it are twofold.
One, you want to go back and do your confirmation sample.
But really what these other countries have said as well, yeah, we want to do a
confirmation
sample too, but we know who it is now.
We'll just go get them and get the second sample and test it then.
Secondly, you may want to go deeper into that sample.
I think the question talked about getting YSTRs out of the reference sample.
Yeah, you'd miss out on that.
However, again, it's a trade-off.
If it's what you need to get your law passed, if it's what you need to have a
resty testing
and get up to a 65 percent hit rate, I believe the pros of it outweigh the cons
Of course, even if the technology changes someday, it's a dynamic thing to
database.
They stop committing crimes.
You'll go back and you'll get a new set of technology to come in.
It's a moving thing.
I think, again, if you need it to get policy through the legislatures, I say
take it.
Thankfully, at the US, I don't think sample distractions are coming any time
soon.
Perfect.
We have two last database questions for you, Tim.
Go ahead and wrap it up.
For our international friends, is CODIS just available in the United States or
can it
be used internationally as well?
CODIS is a software.
Well, CODIS is a system that we all refer to as a DNA database, but the actual
CODIS
software is developed and funded by the FBI.
The FBI is willing to give it to any global law enforcement agency that wants
it.
You just have to work through your US embassy, through the legal act to shame.
They will evaluate your request and make a decision, and then you have to set a
contract
up with the FBI to get it, and it's for free.
You have to pay for the time to install it, but you don't have to pay for the
software.
That's how it works.
One thing very important, this is your own software.
You do not have to share your data with the FBI.
That's the misconception that many have.
CODIS is available to those that want it to get in touch with your US embassy
if you'd
like to have it.
All right.
Last question for you.
What are your thoughts on establishing a universal database in a given country
where everyone
is sampled when they are born, let's say?
It comes up all the time because it's logical to ask that question by a policy
maker.
It's like, "Oh, we're getting 60% hit rates.
Let's get a 99% hit rate and have a DNA at birth."
The reality, however, is it's too problematic.
One, it's not necessary because you can have these with a high hit rate with
the restees
and the other things you could do up to genetic genealogy.
Maybe you could get to that super high hit rate without having everyone in
there because
that's expensive.
The other thing is that we've seen even the place where I thought it was going
to happen
10 years ago was in the Middle East, that politically their structure might
allow for
it and they've got the money to do it.
Even then, Kuwait passed a lot of do it and there was a lot of outcry, not just
within
Kuwait but internationally and it didn't happen.
I don't think it's a practical thing.
What I worry about is when people try to go down that path as a country and
they've missed
five years to have a database of criminal offenders where they could have been
actually
solving crime because they get wrapped into the larger issue there.
Those are my thoughts on it.
Okay, thank you.
Unfortunately, it wraps up all the time we have for Q&A today.
That was a great session.
I'd like to thank Tim and Ashley, our fantastic presenters as well as their
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