Ray Wickenheiser 75 min

Generating Investigative Leads with Alternative Database Search Approaches


Crime scene DNA samples are typically analyzed using an autosomal STR methodology and searched in local, state or national databases using a direct approach, which has a hit rate of ~30-50%. But what about those samples that don’t generate leads using direct database comparisons? There are now multiple alternative procedures that can effectively generative investigative leads from these samples. In this webinar, Jianye Ge, from the Center for Human Identification at the University of North Texas Health Science Center, will compare three methods of searching for relatives in DNA databases. Ray Wickenheiser, from New York State Police crime lab system, will present cases using Y- STR analysis and genetic genealogy, as well as a status update on the state's familial search program. In this webinar you’ll hear about: • Indirect search approaches using familial searching, Y-STR database searching, and genetic genealogy • Case examples using various search methods from a forensic DNA laboratory



0:00

Hello, and welcome to generating investigative leads with alternative database

0:05

search approaches

0:06

brought to you by forensic and sponsored by Thermo Fisher Scientific.

0:10

This is the first webinar in the five-part 2021 Future Trends in Forensic DNA

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Technology

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Series.

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My name is Michelle Taylor, Editor-in-Chief of Forensic, and I will be your

0:20

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We have a great lineup scheduled to present to you today, but before we begin,

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your friends and colleagues.

1:12

First, you will hear from Eugenia Jueux, the Associate Director of the Center

1:17

for Human

1:18

Identification at the University of North Texas Health Science Center.

1:22

He has over 15 years of research and development experience in bioinformatics

1:27

and forensics

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with more than 70 publications.

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His research relates primarily to computational analysis and interpretation of

1:34

DNA forensic

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data.

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The software programs he developed have been used by the federal and state

1:40

government agencies

1:41

to assist in solving criminal cases.

1:44

Next, you will hear from Ray Wickenhiser, who is the Director for the New York

1:48

State

1:48

Police Crime Lab System.

1:50

He has over 36 years of forensic science experience, with 19 of those as a

1:55

crime lab director in

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local and state crime laboratories.

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His areas of expertise include crime lab administration, investigative genetic

2:03

genealogy, quality

2:04

management, forensic DNA, serology, hair and fiber trace analysis, physical

2:09

matching and

2:10

comparison, glass fracture analysis, and forensic grain comparison.

2:16

Thanks, Michel, for that introduction and thanks, I'm officially for inviting

2:20

you today.

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I'm going to talk about one of my recent papers published in the Journal of

2:25

Forensic Sciences.

2:27

In that paper, I compare three different approaches of searching in relatives

2:31

in DNA

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databases to assist a forensic investigation.

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Before I get into the details, I would like to share some numbers reasonably

2:41

published

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by an NIJ.

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According to a recent NIJ blog, there are 250,000 unsolved homicide cases in

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the US, and more

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than 100,000 cases were accumulated in past 20 years long.

2:58

So there are so many unsolved co-cases, and we are desperately looking for

3:02

tools that

3:03

can help us to solve co-cases.

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DNA database is one of the most powerful tools that can assist in co-case

3:12

investigation.

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What typical case you collect sample from crime scene, you send it to the lab

3:17

and generate

3:18

the DNA profile, typically the Osoma STI profile, and then you search the STI

3:24

profile against

3:25

the coded database and hope there is a direct match.

3:29

If yes, you develop a lead for forensic investigation, but in many cases, you

3:35

don't have a direct

3:36

match, then what you can do is to search for indirect match, which means the

3:42

potential

3:42

relatives of the forensic profile in DNA databases.

3:50

There are three different approaches to search relatives, depending on which

3:53

database you

3:54

search.

3:55

From new search, use the Osoma STI profile search against the traditional Osoma

4:01

STI database

4:02

like codis to look for first-degree relatives.

4:06

YSTI database search YSTI database to look for any male relatives.

4:15

And inviscated genetic genealogy or IgG use high-density SNP profiles to search

4:23

against

4:24

SNP database to look for any relatives, close or distant male or female.

4:32

As a matter of which one you use, all these approaches need certain degree of

4:35

family or

4:36

genealogy investigation.

4:39

Either in a small family, it just contains some first-degree relatives or very

4:44

distant

4:44

relatives in a big family.

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And after you generate some leads through the database search, eventually you

4:52

still need

4:52

to get the sample from the suspect and generate Osoma STI profile to compare

4:57

with the crime

4:58

scene profile to confirm the identity.

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Next, I'm going to talk about the details of these approaches.

5:07

Fermiive searching is to detect potential relatives of a forensic profile in

5:11

DNA database.

5:13

This is the workflow of a forensic processing process.

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You have a forensic profile generally from a crime scene sample and you search

5:21

against

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DNA database, measure the similarity between the forensic profile and the

5:26

offender profile,

5:27

and then you rank the offender profile by similarities.

5:31

And the similarity can be kinship index given a specific relationship or number

5:38

of shared

5:39

alleles.

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Because they are very limited number of STI low-sized including coders, we may

5:46

only detect

5:46

the first-degree relatives with high confidence.

5:51

So first-degree relative means their parent child or four-simile relationships.

5:57

Now after you rank the offender profiles, the top candidates can be selected

6:01

for further

6:02

investigation.

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The top candidates are the most likely profile being the relatives of the

6:08

forensic profile.

6:10

And in the first investigation, you may use non-genetic information like age,

6:16

place of

6:16

residency to fill out the unrelated candidates.

6:21

With the forensic profile's male, so you may use YSTAP profile to fill out the

6:28

unrelated

6:29

candidates.

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And in some cases, if the forensic profile is female, you may use mitochondrial

6:35

DNA to

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fill out the unrelated.

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And the KELT-D-O-J did use mitochondrial DNA in familial search.

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And after this task and filtering, you have very good chance to detect

6:49

relatives.

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And if they are really in the database.

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One of the reasons we believe male search should work is based on this BJS

6:57

report in

6:58

1996, a question of population in the United States.

7:03

According to this report, at least 42.8% of the dual-emase have close

7:08

biological relatives

7:09

who are incarcerated.

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Biological relatives means the father, mother, brother, sister, and child.

7:17

These are usually not biological relatives.

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If we further break down into details, there were about 36.5% inmates had four-

7:27

sib incarcerated

7:28

and 22.8% had parents or children incarcerated.

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Which means there are lots of first-degree relatives in the DNA database if all

7:39

the inmates

7:40

DNA profile were entered into KELT-D-O-J.

7:43

And the clinical system contains about 20 STL-O-Sci, which is good enough to

7:51

detect the first-degree

7:52

relatives with pretty high confidence.

7:55

And for more distant relatives, probably not so accurate.

8:01

These are the reasons why from the research in short work, and it did work in

8:06

the help

8:06

in many cases.

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One of the most famous familial search cases was the Grim Sleeper case.

8:13

This case was a serial killer case happened in Los Angeles more than 30 years

8:19

ago.

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In this case, STL-P-FAL were generated from the evidence, but no direct match

8:23

was found

8:24

in the DNA database search.

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So in 2010, about 10 years ago, a familial search was conducted using certain

8:34

Kingsford

8:35

measure 200 candidate profile were determined as potential relatives of this

8:41

perpetrator

8:42

for first-degree investigation.

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And the YSTF profile of these 200 candidates were also tested, and only one

8:51

profile should

8:52

exact same Y-hab type with the evidence profile, which belonged to Chris

8:58

Franklin.

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So very likely the perpetrator of this case may be a close relative of Chris.

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Then please also examine the first record of his family and exclude Chris's

9:13

brother

9:13

like his father Lonnie Franklin.

9:15

It could be the source of the DNA evidence.

9:19

Then ALAPD sent an undercut team to follow Lonnie Franklin and then retrieve

9:25

his DNA sample

9:26

from a slice of pizza.

9:28

And it turned out to be a match, so it solved the case.

9:33

This is the first successful familial searching to solve a homicide case in the

9:39

US.

9:39

YSTF database searching is very similar to familial searching.

9:43

It follows almost the same workflow.

9:48

But there's a few things that different.

9:49

First, you use a forensic YSTF profile to search against YSTF database, so

9:55

which means

9:55

you have to have a YSTF database to search.

9:59

Second, the similarity measure is different.

10:04

For YSTF, it compares the number of mismatch loci or stabs between a pair of Y

10:11

profile.

10:12

Third, the first investigation types of Osonma YSTF profiles of the candidates

10:21

and the candidates

10:21

male relatives.

10:22

And depending on how far you go, you may investigate the whole male lineage of

10:27

the candidates.

10:30

So why do we want to use Y?

10:32

First of all, most violent crimes were committed by men.

10:37

Here are some statistics summarized by DOJ.

10:40

For example, 99% of the first four rapes were committed by men.

10:45

And white mausom is only inherited between males from father to sons.

10:52

And so we can use white mausom to trace the male lineage.

10:56

And this feature is very useful in forensic investigation.

11:00

It can be used in kinship analysis missing person cases.

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Familiar search can use Y to exclude unrelated candidates.

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And white can also be used in matrix cases in for ancestry, link multiple

11:17

different cases.

11:19

And through these many cases, you slowly accumulate Y profile to build a Y

11:25

database.

11:26

And then you can use the Y database to search for male relatives and help solve

11:32

some cases.

11:33

There have been many successful Y database search cases.

11:37

I would like to talk about one good example that check the replicates happening

11:43

in China.

11:45

This was also a serial killer case similar to the green sleeper case.

11:50

The Osama S.T.A.P. files generated from the crime scene sample.

11:54

But there was no direct match in the DNA database.

11:59

Around 2013 or 2014, many crime labs in China started building local Y

12:05

databases.

12:07

And the city where this case occurred also started building its own Y database.

12:13

In 2016, the local police department relaunched an investigation of this code

12:19

case with the

12:20

local Y database.

12:22

And the perpetrator, Gao Cheng Yong, was tracked down after his uncle was

12:26

arrested for a mining

12:27

crime.

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So the process was that a man was arrested for a mining crime.

12:33

And his Y profile entered into the Y database and matched with the evidence

12:39

profile of this

12:40

case.

12:41

And then the police department investigated his family and the Y.S.A.P.

12:45

S.T.A.P. profile to confirm that the Gao Cheng Yong was the perpetrator of this

12:51

case.

12:52

So this case used Y profile to detect uncle nephew relationship.

12:57

And the familial search would not be able to help in this case.

13:02

Since Y.S.A.P. database searching is not very common in the United States.

13:07

So I'd like to talk about a few other countries that have built their national

13:12

Y database.

13:14

China is the pioneer in Y.S.A.P.

13:15

database.

13:16

And there have been at least 20 million profiles, more profiles in the national

13:21

database and

13:22

they're still rapidly increasing.

13:25

The structure of the Y.S.A.P. database is very similar to Osama's T.A.P.

13:29

database. It contains Fender, VST, Franci profiles.

13:32

And it can be used for any case.

13:36

Many provinces in China require typing both Osomo and the Y chromosome S.T.A.P.

13:43

profiles

13:44

for all the crime scenes sample they collected.

13:49

And then they will search both Osomo and Y.S.A.P. profiles in the database

13:54

search.

13:56

And there has been at least tens of thousands of successful Y.S.A.P.

14:01

database in search cases in China.

14:03

And there are more cases with confession after rest.

14:06

And because the database size is so big and to increase the destination power,

14:13

China Y.S.A.P.

14:13

database require at least 35 Y.S.A.P.

14:18

Singapore also have built their own national database.

14:22

They plan to retype all 170 samples they stored by the end of last year.

14:33

But probably it's because of COVID-19.

14:35

But anyway, that's the plan.

14:38

And they mostly use the Y.S.A.P. database for sexual assault cases.

14:43

New Zealand and Australia also start their national Y.S.A.P. database in the

14:49

past few

14:49

years.

14:50

And the sample size may not be that big, but it's growing very fast.

15:00

The database of the New Zealand and Australia is very similar to Singapore.

15:04

They mostly use for sexual assault cases.

15:08

But the technical detail may be different for different countries.

15:14

One good thing about Y.S.A.P.

15:15

database is that you don't need to pass new legislation specifically for Y.S.A.

15:21

P.

15:21

because the current DNA law do not specify which DNA market to include in the

15:27

database.

15:28

So it should cover those ensemble in Y.S.A.P.

15:31

in this table, I only list four countries as examples.

15:38

And we know there are several European countries have built their own Y.S.A.P.

15:44

One successful Y.S.A.P.

15:47

I mentioned in my paper was from New Zealand.

15:52

The third approach is the investigative genetic genealogy or IGG.

15:57

It was very hard in the past few years in the United States and it did help

16:01

solve loss

16:02

of cold cases.

16:05

This approach is similar to Y.S.A.P.

16:07

database searching in terms of detecting distant relatives.

16:11

But the foundation is completely different.

16:15

IGG searches the high density SNP database, not STIA database.

16:20

In IGG can detect both male and female relatives.

16:25

This is the typical workflow of IGG.

16:28

Usually the law enforcement agencies or crime labs will also source the whole

16:34

workflow to

16:35

the external service providers.

16:38

And the service providers will use microarray or whole genome sequencing

16:44

technology to generate

16:46

high density SNP profiles from the crime case, for example.

16:51

And to obtain a meaningful searching results, usually the subs lab will require

16:56

at least

16:57

one nanogram of DNA from the sample.

17:02

And the SNP profile will be searched against the SNP database like Jup Match to

17:09

look for

17:10

potential relatives.

17:13

And Jup Match used an algorithm to measure the IBD segments between a pair of

17:21

SNP profiles

17:22

and determine their relationships.

17:25

And if we with enough number of SNPs, it can detect very distant relationships

17:33

like the

17:33

fourth degree or fifth, sixth, very distant relationships.

17:38

This first three steps probably won't take too long to finish.

17:41

More efforts will happen in the last step, the genealogy search in the PAPD

17:49

records.

17:49

It relies on the individual genealogists to dig into the PAPD record and find

17:55

or confirm

17:56

the relationships.

17:58

So it may take weeks or months to get it down.

18:02

And there's no automatic software available to do this.

18:07

So it's very lab intensive.

18:11

The most famous IGG case was the Golden State Killer Case.

18:16

And I believe all of you heard of this case.

18:18

This was also a zero-kill case.

18:21

In this case, SNP profile was generated from the promising sample and the

18:27

search against

18:28

the Jup Match database.

18:30

And based on the search results, 25 family trees would generate as potential

18:35

relatives

18:36

of the PAPD.

18:37

And then the other information was used to rule out the unrelated candidates

18:42

like the

18:43

age, gender, the place of residency, etc.

18:48

And eventually only the angel was slapped and he was found through third cousin

18:53

relationships

18:55

in a huge family tree with about a thousand people.

18:59

So you can see there was lots of work involved in the genealogy search and much

19:05

more intensive

19:06

than just generating DNA profile.

19:09

And I talked about three different interactive DNA-based searching approaches.

19:15

Next I would like to compare them from multiple different perspectives.

19:20

Both from low search and the wide-base searching are conducted in the

19:25

accredited forensic DNA

19:27

laboratories.

19:29

And use this validated standard forensic technology to generate either a soma-

19:33

stia profile or

19:35

Y-stia profile by the DNA analyst.

19:39

But IgG usually was also to the external service provider.

19:46

And those service provider usually will use either microarray or whole genome

19:51

sequencing

19:52

technology to generate high-density SNP profiles.

19:57

But those technologies are not validated by forensic labs.

20:01

The forensic technology are more sensitive.

20:04

It can generate four STF profiles with about 125 people in DNA or even lower.

20:13

And the IgG service provider usually requires at least one nanogram of DNA to

20:20

get meaningful

20:21

SNP profile, but the more they better.

20:26

Social searching searches against the soma-stia database like codis, why STF

20:30

database searching

20:32

searches, why STF database?

20:35

Both STF databases are managed by the government usually in the profiles in

20:41

those database

20:42

are verified and the database are secured.

20:46

But the IgG searches against the public-sasible database like GIMMATCH database

20:52

and the profiles

20:54

in those databases are usually uploaded by the average people like us.

20:59

So the profiles are usually not verified.

21:02

So the databases are less secured and more vulnerable to attacks.

21:09

And the data leakage can happen by hacking or special design queries.

21:16

There have been at least two papers to talk about how to use special design

21:21

queries to

21:21

get the SNP profiles out of GIMMATCH database.

21:26

All these three approaches use different data.

21:29

So the way to measure the relationships are different for different approaches.

21:36

The familiar search used like a racial or number of shared alleles for IBS to

21:42

measure

21:43

the relationship between a pair of soma-stia profiles.

21:47

And it can detect the first degree relatives.

21:51

The YSTF database measures the number of mismatch locile steps for a pair of Y

22:00

STF profile.

22:02

And theoretically it can detect all males in the same lineage.

22:06

But if it's too far away from each other, then the mutation accumulates so it

22:10

will make

22:11

more difficult to detect the very distant male relatives.

22:17

IGG measures the total length of IBS, IBD segments between a pair of high-

22:26

density SNP

22:27

profiles.

22:28

And sometimes MIMMATCH also uses IBS to determine the relationship.

22:32

And depends on the number of SNPs in the profile, it can detect very distant

22:38

relationship like

22:39

the search to be or more distant relationships.

22:42

There's not official summary on how many successful cases on each approach.

22:49

But based on the the researchers and the information we know for familiar

22:55

search, they probably

22:56

have several hundred successful cases mostly in US and Europe.

23:01

And several hundred successful IGG cases mostly in US.

23:09

And there are probably at least tens of thousands successful cases for YDV

23:16

search, but mostly

23:18

in China.

23:20

In terms of the cost, the most familiar search in YDV search happens within the

23:27

crime labs.

23:28

So you can use existing instrument.

23:32

The cost of DNA test will depend on how many samples you want to process.

23:36

It may cost 700 to $7,000.

23:41

If you don't have a YDV and you want to build a database by re-typing all the

23:46

reference

23:47

samples, then it may cost a lot of money.

23:50

But if you just accumulate all the white profiles generated from the record

23:55

cases, then it won't

23:57

cause anything.

23:59

The IGG, if you want to do the IGG within a crime lab, you need to purchase a

24:04

very expensive

24:06

instrument and maintain instrument, very expensive.

24:10

And so that's why most of labs will also allow the IGG service to an external

24:15

service

24:16

provider, which may cost several thousand dollars or more, depends on the case.

24:22

In terms of the general time, familiar search and YDV search usually only takes

24:28

days to

24:28

weeks since it happened within the crime lab.

24:32

Then IGG may take longer weeks to months because of the extensive genealogy

24:38

searching.

24:40

This one thing I want to point out here is that the YDV search may also need

24:45

genealogy

24:46

search for some cases.

24:48

Now the identity of the profiles in YDV is usually unknown.

24:54

So if you get ahead, then you know who to investigate.

24:59

But if the relationship is too distant, you are not so sure if the relationship

25:04

is true,

25:04

then you need to have a genealogy search to confirm the relationship.

25:10

Also explore the other lab tips around the hit.

25:14

So in terms of legislation, familiar search allowed by at least 12 states in

25:22

the US and

25:23

are many other countries, but it's prohibited by Maryland, Washington, D.C and

25:30

Canada.

25:31

Why is that database searching covered by the contentless reservation for Osama

25:39

-Sti

25:39

database since the content DNA law do not specify which market to include the

25:46

database.

25:46

In IGG there's no legislation as of last year, no regulation for IGG, but has

25:53

been introduced

25:54

and proposed by multiple states in the US, either banning or regulating IGG,

26:00

depending

26:01

on the states.

26:02

The advantage of the familiar search and YDV search are that they use existing

26:09

technology

26:10

in the legislation.

26:12

The technology are validated in the proficient test data verified and secured.

26:19

Fermill search can only detect first degree relatives and it may generally

26:24

large can

26:24

they list off searching, so it will still lie on YSTR to fill out the on-

26:30

related.

26:30

YSTR, YSTR database have higher searching efficiency for male lineage and

26:37

sometimes

26:38

we can even associate Y2 surnames.

26:42

But it can only detect male lineage and if you don't have YDVs and you want to

26:46

retype

26:47

all reference profiles then it may cause a lot, but if you just accumulate the

26:51

work

26:51

profiles from regular cases it costs nothing.

26:55

In IGG it's able to find distant relatives and female relatives as well, so it

27:02

's better

27:03

than Y, but the technology is not frantically evaluated, but probably okay

27:11

since it's just

27:11

for investigative purpose.

27:15

IGG is heavily aligned on the public snap database, but the snap data is may

27:22

not be

27:22

secured and the people have lots of concerns on the privacy inclusion.

27:28

And they also have a little line on the genealogist to do the published record

27:35

digging, so it

27:38

will take a long time and there's a lot of effort involved.

27:44

In a short summary, all these three approaches are viable and they can increase

27:49

the value

27:50

of DNA day spacing.

27:52

YSTR searching and IGG are more advantageous things they can detect more

27:58

distant relatives

28:00

and it should be able to assist in more challenging cases.

28:04

But familial searching can be performed more readily within the forensic lab

28:09

settings.

28:11

The database is the key, without database there's nothing you can search.

28:17

In the US, Osama is tier database and the genealogy database are ready for

28:22

search, but

28:23

many other countries may not have the genealogy database ready.

28:27

In the US, probably not too many labs have their own local Y database, but if

28:33

you start

28:34

accumulating your Y profiles through regular cases and in the future, I believe

28:39

you will

28:40

have some good surprises.

28:42

Just like many years ago, people upload their SNP profiles to gene match their

28:49

base.

28:49

And each country or state may have this own unique situation in economics,

28:53

technology

28:54

availability, culture, legal considerations.

28:59

So each state or each country should decide the best approach to fit those

29:03

circumstances.

29:05

In our center, we have touched all three approaches.

29:10

I developed a familiar search software and Peking Fs edition many years ago.

29:15

It has been used in many lab labs.

29:19

And if you are interested in this software, you may contact me or the tech

29:24

transfer office

29:25

or university, or believe or tech transfer office have decided to provide this

29:31

software

29:32

for free or really low cost.

29:37

In the currently, we have an NIJ funded research project to use high density

29:42

SNP panel for missing

29:44

person cases.

29:45

The challenges are how to get good SNP calls from the bone samples, relative to

29:51

great

29:52

examples, and also how to develop a good algorithm to deal with those low

29:58

quality SNP

29:59

calls.

30:01

And I am also working on a pilot local Y-steady base project.

30:06

And hopefully in the next few years, I will have some good stories to share.

30:11

Finally, I would like to thank the invitation for my friends in Sumo Fisher,

30:16

Andrew, Sherry,

30:17

Christina, and Jonathan, and I would like to thank the support for my colleague

30:22

in UNTCHI,

30:23

Bruce, John, Christina.

30:26

Also I would like to thank Mark, Brian, Colin, Chris, Seton, and Carol for

30:33

providing their

30:34

data in this study.

30:37

Thank you.

30:38

And now I will pass it over to my colleague, Wayne Wickenhaiser.

30:43

Thank you, Mike, and Dr. G.

30:44

And I will start with my presentation now on the forensic applications of YSTRs

30:48

, cases

30:49

and databases.

30:50

So my name is Ray Wickenhaiser and I am Director of the New York State Police

30:54

Crime

30:54

Lab System.

30:59

Just first for a disclaimer, any of the opinions that I am going to express are

31:02

those of myself,

31:04

not the New York State Police, Azklat, or any other entity.

31:07

So just to provide you with a brief outline of what I am going to talk about

31:11

with you

31:11

today.

31:12

First of all, talk about investigative leads and what we do in forensic labs

31:16

and what

31:16

our process is.

31:17

I am going to talk about YSTR case applications specifically and give some

31:21

concrete examples

31:23

of some great case successes we have had.

31:25

Starting with Anna Schof, which is a great YSTR case, followed by a familiar

31:30

search in

31:31

cases, one of her big successes in solving decades long on Solve case of Wendy

31:32

Jerome,

31:36

homicide in Rochester, New York.

31:38

I am going to talk about familiar searching in New York, what we do and some of

31:43

why we

31:43

do it and then also touch upon investigative genetic genealogy.

31:48

And then to summarize, provide a path forward and that is how do we provide

31:52

data-driven

31:53

investigative leads.

31:55

So to jump into my talk, evolution of forensic science, things have come a long

32:00

way in the

32:00

last number of decades.

32:02

So what is forensic science, really the application of science to the law and

32:06

the mission we

32:06

have in crime labs is, as we are applying that science to law and our cases,

32:13

our goal

32:13

is to maximize the value of evidence.

32:16

So we are in a privileged position where we provide independent scientific

32:20

analysis,

32:21

its objective, it is based on data, it is reproducible and it is something we

32:25

can demonstrate.

32:27

And so that adds a lot of value to investigators and investigating their cases

32:31

and to the justice

32:32

system as a whole.

32:34

So the services that we provide, we identify items, so you think about drugs,

32:38

toxicology,

32:39

is it blood, is the semen, fingerprints, so forth.

32:43

Comparing it to known sources adds a lot of value.

32:45

Now where did that blood or that semen come from?

32:48

And providing those associations.

32:50

So we absolutely can eliminate sources, potential sources with certainty.

32:55

So that is great and very valuable, especially those people are being

32:57

eliminated.

32:58

And when we include somebody, we can give an idea of how much weight is and how

33:01

valuable

33:02

or how probative is that inclusion.

33:04

So that adds a lot to investigators and the judicial system.

33:08

And what I really want to emphasize today is the investigative information and

33:12

helping

33:12

investigators develop and eliminate suspects is a really a great service, is

33:17

something

33:17

we provided for years, but has really come to the fore with some of the tools

33:20

we have

33:21

now which we're going to discuss.

33:23

So when you look at some of the new investigative tools that I knew, I may be

33:26

saying well,

33:27

why stairs aren't that new, but relatively speaking they are and some of their

33:31

applications

33:32

are.

33:33

So I'm going to be really searching and talking about that in the case.

33:38

Investigative genetic genealogy has really come to the fore and being able to

33:43

solve decades

33:44

long cases.

33:46

So again, a great technique and talk about that a little bit.

33:49

So what you're really seeing is a shift from direct one to one matches where

33:52

you have to

33:53

have a suspect.

33:54

Now using databases, we're able to provide those investigative leads in terms

33:58

of here

33:59

is a person of interest where there was not one previously before using that

34:04

database

34:05

before using a database.

34:07

Now we're expanding comparisons, particularly with familial search to include

34:11

kinship information

34:12

and that's a bit of a mental leap.

34:14

So we're not doing a direct comparison, but in fact an indirect comparison, but

34:18

using

34:18

DNA and our knowledge of how it is inherited can really add value in terms of

34:23

expanding

34:24

the size of that database.

34:25

And something again, the privacy advocates have a point, something we want to

34:28

take very,

34:29

very carefully and sensitively, but it does add value to investigations and

34:34

really again

34:35

back to our mission and that is maximizing evidentiary value.

34:39

So when do we do this?

34:42

So right now we certainly are reacting to investigator requests.

34:46

They're asking what cases and demanding cases be done, but certainly we have

34:50

potential crime

34:52

labs because we're an aggregator of data, people make a lot of requests from

34:55

different

34:56

jurisdictions and those go into our backlog and eventually into unsolved cases.

35:02

We can review our cases for candidates in terms of which cases are potential

35:07

candidates

35:08

for this new technology and then reach back to our investigator.

35:13

So it goes both ways.

35:14

They ask us, now we're in a position where we can look at what we have and say,

35:18

hey,

35:18

have you thought about this for this case?

35:20

So speaking specifically about YSTRs, as you may know, the Y chromosome is for

35:25

males only

35:26

or in males only.

35:28

So only certain kind of cases where there is a male, of course that's a lot of

35:32

our cases

35:32

as males are suspects, the vast majority of the time.

35:36

But because all the short tandem repeats are STRs we look at are linked, we can

35:41

't use the

35:42

product rule, which means if they were independent, we'd multiply them together

35:46

, that's not the

35:47

case.

35:48

So hence we have to apply much more conservative statistics, counting method

35:52

and so forth.

35:53

So as a result, having the same Y chromosome match with an STR profile is going

36:00

to be a

36:00

lot more common than autosomal inclusion.

36:02

So it's really not individualizing.

36:06

But what we really can use them for when we have a Y as a male who's in a

36:11

mixture with

36:12

a female, which is quite often the case, particularly when we have sexual

36:16

assault cases, there's

36:17

a bunch of female which may drown out effectively that minor male component.

36:22

That's where the YSTRs is very, very valuable.

36:25

And it's also when you have a relative who's a male, so we're searching for

36:29

male candidates,

36:30

such as what we do with familial searching, using that Y where you know the

36:34

autosomal is

36:35

different, but using the Y as a tool to eliminate really lets the DNA do the

36:40

heavy lifting for

36:41

familial searching.

36:42

So we can much more quickly eliminate candidates, whereas we just dumped that

36:47

whole list on investigators

36:49

that would really be overwhelming.

36:50

So that's where the lab can really provide a tremendous service, let the DNA do

36:54

the work.

36:55

So the first case I wanted to discuss was great YSTR case success at a homicide

37:00

case,

37:01

August 10th, 2014, the body of 17 year old Anna Rose Shove was pulled out of

37:07

Lake Ontario

37:08

at Brennan Beach.

37:10

She was vacationing at an RV resort near the beach with her family.

37:14

There was some initial suspicion that Anna's death was more of an accidental

37:17

drowning because

37:18

she was a pretty good swimmer, but because there was other factors including

37:22

she had

37:23

some bruises cut to her head and around her eyes and her mouth, there was some

37:28

suspicion.

37:29

So certainly any unattended death is this you would look into it and there

37:33

certainly was

37:34

some clues that indicated perhaps it was not an accidental grounding.

37:38

So a number of items were submitted to the crime lab.

37:42

There's a sexual offense kit that was collected.

37:44

That's her autopsy was submitted.

37:47

The date that's indicated there on my PowerPoint slides, there was additional

37:50

items, including

37:50

her bathing suit purse.

37:52

There were fine in the lake and notably were weighted down with rocks and that

37:56

was submitted.

37:57

So again, evidence there that perhaps it was not an accidental drowning.

38:02

Other people on the beach that day indicated that she was seen with a 32 year

38:07

old man,

38:08

a name Stephen Sotanic.

38:10

Hope I'm not mispronouncing that too badly.

38:13

And a buckle sample was collected from him and submitted on the date also

38:17

indicated in

38:18

2014.

38:19

He had a visible scratch on his neck, one questioned by state.

38:23

And again, I just want to note all kinds of cases, particularly DNA and

38:28

especially

38:29

why it's part of the entirety of the case.

38:31

So somebody's not going to be convicted on just the YSTR alone.

38:35

But nor should they probably on DNA alone.

38:38

You're really looking at the composite of the case.

38:40

So you can what you see is a picture that's starting to become clear here.

38:44

So the DNA report was issued also in 2014 on samples from the autopsy and swabs

38:51

from

38:51

her bathing suit and very notably a YSTR DNA profile from the fingernail clipp

38:56

ings and

38:57

scrapings from the right hands of Anna Rose show match the profile of the

39:03

suspect.

39:04

Really interesting to me is she was found in the water.

39:07

There was not an autosomal profile but a YSTR.

39:11

So now we'll take what we can get to me.

39:13

It was just astounding that we're able to get a result given the situation that

39:17

her body

39:17

was found in.

39:18

So remarkable work there and obviously great tools help you do that.

39:23

So less than four hours after deliberation, the jury found Mr. Satanic guilty

39:28

of second

39:29

degree murder in Anna Rose showed death and he was sentenced to 25 years in

39:35

prison.

39:35

During the trial he testified in his own defense.

39:38

He admitted he had spent some time with her in the beach and hunter.

39:40

He stated that he'd hit her purse after finding what he thought was a suicide

39:45

note.

39:45

He also claimed he took her other belongings including the notes to a different

39:49

beach where

39:49

he built a memorial tour.

39:51

And obviously if you're a juror, you have to decide whether that's something

39:56

you want

39:56

to go with or not and certainly helps to have objective evidence of the DNA

40:01

that's helping

40:02

you to make that decision.

40:04

So the next case I wanted to focus on was Wendy Jerome, a familial searching

40:08

case which we

40:10

very recently had success on.

40:12

And so this was a decades old homicide case committed in 2014 in Rochester, New

40:17

York.

40:17

So then 14 year old Wendy was last seen alive leaving her home to deliver a

40:21

birthday card

40:22

to a friend around 7pm on Thanksgiving Day and she had an 8pm curfew.

40:27

When she didn't return at 8pm her parents were frantic, reported her missing

40:32

and very

40:33

sadly her body was found less than 3 hours later behind a school very nearby

40:38

her home.

40:38

She had been raped, brutally beaten and her throat had been slit.

40:43

So here's just a summary of what was called in the paper, what is familial

40:47

searching in

40:47

the familial search.

40:49

We use an algorithm to compare people in the data bank so we're talking about

40:53

the CODIS

40:53

data bank to this crime scene sample and look for relatives.

40:58

So we're looking for an indirect match.

41:00

There was a full CODIS profile developed with no hits for a number of years.

41:04

So we're really trying to expand that search, develop investigative leads that

41:08

we can provide

41:09

to investigators.

41:12

So a suspect was arrested and I just want to note for everyone, this is just an

41:18

arrest.

41:18

Individuals are innocent so proven guilty so this is preliminary but just your

41:23

background,

41:24

they were 20 years old at the time.

41:25

They lived near the homicide scene in Rochester at the time.

41:29

The two individuals did not know each other.

41:31

The suspect abruptly moved away from Rochester.

41:34

They were arrested in Florida and a trial is pending.

41:39

So I do want to, after highlighting these two cases and the success we achieved

41:43

and talk

41:44

about just how we do familial searching in New York.

41:47

So currently we have kind of a unique process in which we have a department of

41:51

criminal justice

41:52

services, DCGS where the application is actually made to that department and we

41:58

are the lab

41:59

that would essentially be the wet lab for that administrative body.

42:03

So the request is submitted to DCGS.

42:07

It must be a homicide or sexual assault or with exigent circumstances, so major

42:12

public

42:12

safety threat.

42:14

Where significant resources have been expended to try to solve that case.

42:18

There must be at this time a full DNA and full YSTR profile in CODIS with no

42:24

hits.

42:24

There must be assigned MOU from the police chief in the DA and the New York

42:29

state police

42:30

crime lab then conducts a familial search once those cases have been vetted and

42:33

approved

42:34

through a process.

42:36

We use YSTRs once we have generated a list and with essentially we take the

42:41

entire database,

42:43

state database.

42:44

We generate a likelihood ratio comparing it to essentially how likely is each

42:49

individual

42:50

related to this crime scene profile.

42:53

And then we assess essentially the top candidates and any of those that have a

42:57

threshold and

42:58

again depending on how many loci we have in there whether it's 15, the

43:02

threshold is 10,000

43:04

likelihood ratio and 5,000 when we have 15.

43:09

So once we've met that, we then let the YSTRs do the work as I had mentioned

43:15

previously

43:16

and sort through those samples so we can then ideally provide someone who has

43:22

meeting the

43:22

likelihood threshold and also has the same YSTR profile.

43:27

So we had an extensive validation process that was reviewed and approved by our

43:32

DNA subcommittee

43:33

because we have a commission and DNA subcommittee that oversees all of the

43:37

crime labs within

43:38

the state of New York.

43:39

So that was approved as I mentioned by the DNA subcommittee as well as the New

43:42

York Commission

43:42

on Forensic Science.

43:44

So as I mentioned, likelihood ratios, we have a threshold that they must meet

43:49

and then

43:49

as well as the Y testing.

43:51

We currently have a validation expansion in the approval process which we're

43:54

moving up

43:55

to the 20 loci and we have also included a much higher threshold that will

44:00

remove that

44:00

requirement for the YSTR profile.

44:03

So that's really for cases where we have a female suspect or we don't have a Y

44:08

STR profile

44:09

available because we may have those kinds of cases where we just don't have

44:12

enough DNA.

44:13

So what it's do is really expanding the candidates that they don't have to have

44:17

that full profile.

44:19

And we have roughly 15% female in the database so we want to be able to look at

44:23

those kinds

44:24

of cases as well.

44:27

You want to touch upon IGG or investigative genetic genealogy and what that is

44:32

is the

44:32

generation of a SNP profile which is not the STRs.

44:35

We typically deal with a crime lab.

44:37

No crime labs to my knowledge are doing them so this is an outsourced where we

44:41

still have

44:41

some DNA that is at the crime scene from that perpetrator.

44:44

We want to put it into a database as a SNP profile and those databases are

44:49

direct to

44:49

consumer databases not law enforcement databases and somewhat in the same way

44:55

as we do with

44:56

familial searching essentially get a relative who's a suspect and then work

45:01

with that potential

45:03

candidate if you will to see if there's any potential there or develop family

45:06

trees and

45:06

whatnot.

45:07

So just to give you a little bit of an idea of brokenness into three phases how

45:11

IGG has

45:12

done.

45:13

So phase one exactly what we do now go to the crime scene get that DNA develop

45:18

an STR

45:19

profile put it into co-host.

45:21

Phase two which I'm going to focus on a little bit more is really that gene

45:25

alogy component

45:26

which is new to us new to crime labs and can be done totally externally to a

45:30

crime lab

45:31

and then back to phase three which now the investigation has a suspect gets a

45:36

known sample

45:37

bring it to the crime lab we do an STR profile and do the direct comparison.

45:41

So phase is one in three entirely what we're used to done in a crime lab what's

45:46

new is

45:47

the stage two but it's the key of how we get a suspect and I do want to kind of

45:52

touch

45:52

upon that as well.

45:54

So we're in the process of working on cases as many of you are within the state

45:58

police

45:58

so we would look through our cases to come up with candidates as well as talk

46:02

to our investigators

46:04

and we've been able to submit cases you talk to us about cases that way as well

46:07

So talk about phase two just how that is done.

46:11

So once we do have sufficient sample that's both quality and quantity so we're

46:15

looking

46:16

at least on an anagram at this point and working with whatever outsourced labs

46:20

in order to

46:21

make sure that there's a sufficient quantity there they will develop the SNP

46:26

profile from

46:26

the crime scene sample.

46:28

The next phase is for that to be put into those couple of databases notably jet

46:34

match

46:34

and family tree that do have individuals in the databases who are permitting

46:39

their samples

46:40

to be used to be searched against and candidates are then surface so they're

46:45

known as matches

46:46

but essentially they're potential relatives and from those potential relatives

46:51

a genealogist

46:52

can then essentially build a tree to look for a most recent common ancestor.

46:58

So what that is really doing is going to if you have somebody who says the

47:02

first cousin

47:03

to the crime scene that would mean that you'd have to go up to grandparents the

47:07

second

47:08

cousin you'd go up to great grandparents and so forth so you're looking at

47:11

somebody who

47:12

is the most recent common ancestor of the candidate that you've got a match to

47:17

and the

47:17

actual crime scene.

47:18

Then once you've had that most recent common ancestors you've got somebody who

47:22

's an ancestor

47:23

in common you build the trees back down and then look for descendants and once

47:28

you have

47:29

those descendants you're looking for where the family trees may actually cross

47:33

because

47:33

ideally you'll have multiple individuals ultimately you're looking for step six

47:39

which is now you've

47:40

got those family trees you've got somebody who has both sides or relatives on

47:45

both sides

47:45

that come together in one family so you've got somebody in the maternal and

47:48

paternal side

47:50

and the descendants that fit the profile so they lived in that same location

47:54

they've

47:55

been the right age they are the right sex typically male other attributes

47:58

perhaps that

47:59

you might be able to include hair color eye color if those are the kinds of

48:03

things you're

48:03

able to develop in the SNP profile and hence develop a suspect so a lot of work

48:09

there but

48:09

again the same goal as familiar searching is a number of the other things we do

48:14

developing

48:15

something elite that we can turn over to our investigators and again back to

48:19

what they're

48:20

you know known to be doing get that profile and then get it back to the lab so

48:24

we can do

48:25

the direct STR comparison.

48:28

So one of the things we really again my opinion really emphasizes is always

48:36

having the code

48:37

of cell eligible crime scene profile before you proceed you want to have a kind

48:40

of constant

48:41

flow and treat the cases the same inequitably and how you're going to do that

48:46

and use the

48:47

kind of most reliable techniques that are going to solve cases first and then

48:52

build upon

48:53

those in the cases that you have not solved so what we're doing here and what I

48:57

would

48:58

really subscribe that we would all do is apply both all of your techniques to

49:03

whatever policies

49:05

out there department health policy on conducting investigative genetic gene

49:11

alogy and it's very

49:13

very similar to what we're doing with familial searching so we're restricting

49:16

it to major

49:16

cases I talked about having sufficient sample and by having a codus profile

49:24

first and not

49:25

getting a hit what you ensure the following one is that it sounds so simple to

49:30

say it

49:30

it's a codus qualifying profile but what that does is guarantee a whole lot of

49:35

other

49:35

things one is the profile is quality it's been generated in a credited lab that

49:40

is audited

49:41

to the FBI TOS it's got all of those requirements that we all know for a crime

49:45

lab your audited

49:46

your professional testing of qualifications all those things have listed and

49:51

more it's

49:51

independent objective as you've developed that profile from a sample you know

49:55

is that

49:55

the crime scene reasonably from a suspect and you're going to do that well in

49:58

advance

49:59

of having any suspects to compare it to so it's going to be independently done

50:03

it's

50:03

objective it's going to be probative ideally you've got that smoking gun so to

50:07

speak of

50:08

the any that's found in a really telling evidential position and sexual

50:13

assaults with semen that

50:15

kind of thing would obviously be that kind of sample equitable and as I

50:20

mentioned using

50:21

the codus first and then progressively layering the more aggressive approaches

50:26

to solving

50:27

your crime ensures that you treat cases equally you're doing it a very

50:30

organized and a good

50:32

flow kind of good manner that's very consistent and then you wrap up the

50:36

efforts for those

50:37

cases where you would have unsolved or have installed them by earlier efforts

50:41

so it really

50:42

helps to have that organized flow of treating cases the same and equitable so

50:47

the key components

50:48

I guess in summary maximizing evidential value the crime scene evidence is to

50:52

use that kind

50:53

of a layered progressive approach and really using technology that we have to

50:57

save investigator

50:58

time I mean they're fantastic but they can only do what they're given in terms

51:03

of tools

51:03

so using the YSDRs as I mentioned for familial searching and limiting a number

51:08

of candidates

51:09

so once they're really once you know you can say our strong candidates but

51:14

including training

51:16

as well as that knowing that these are family members we really have to treat

51:19

them carefully

51:20

they are not the suspect but they're getting close using databases responsibly

51:25

inviting

51:25

by terms of service so I mentioned letting the DNA save and directing

51:29

investigative work

51:30

and of course the great example Golden State kill and it really started at all

51:34

unsolved

51:35

in four decades with traditional techniques along comes investigative genealogy

51:40

and some

51:40

fantastic work solved in 63 days from the data that database entry speaks for

51:45

itself but something

51:46

we really have to use carefully and judiciously as I mentioned and demonstrated

51:51

how we use

51:51

our familial search screenings and those YSDRs to screen the candidates again

51:56

protecting

51:57

their rights so we really want to give leads that are you know ones that we

52:01

know are as

52:02

good as we can make them having MOUs with law enforcement and prosecuting

52:06

attorneys to make

52:07

sure that if we're going to do the work which is considerable that they're

52:10

ready to move

52:11

ahead with that case and having that training to ensure that the leads are

52:16

known to be related

52:17

individuals not that individual and so that it can be something that really is

52:24

done properly

52:25

so want to make sure that we use the tools judiciously and we make sure that

52:30

they're

52:30

there for the next case and the next case and next case and something that

52:33

everybody can

52:34

get behind given that there are privacy issues and we really want to be

52:38

respectful of that

52:39

so providing investigative leads to investigators has always been one of the

52:43

most important jobs

52:44

in the crime labs and so these tools are providing more of the same.

52:50

With that I'd like to acknowledge some fantastic efforts of our biological

52:54

science case work

52:55

data bank and CODA staff who worked on these cases and on our familial

52:59

searching and investigative

53:00

genetic genealogy initiatives so thank you for your kind attention and with

53:05

that I'd

53:06

like to open us up for some questions.

53:09

Fantastic thank you Ray for that great information and insight.

53:13

It is almost time for the Q&A portion of our webinar if you have not ready

53:18

please take

53:19

a minute to ask our presenters a question using the Q&A dialog box on your

53:23

screen.

53:24

While you think about your questions we're going to throw up three polling

53:27

questions for

53:28

you quickly the first one.

53:31

Does your agency utilize Y chromosome analysis?

53:34

Yes YSTRs for sexual assault YSTRs for homicide cases YSTRs for mixture

53:41

analysis Yscreen for

53:43

sample screening or no?

53:46

Let's see what everyone says.

53:47

Looks like the majority of you say no followed by closely by yes you use YSTRs

53:54

for sexual

53:55

assault cases.

54:00

Have your agency used familial search or genetic genealogy?

54:02

Yes we have used familial search.

54:05

Yes we have used genetic genealogy.

54:08

No but we plan to use familial search in the future or no but we plan to use

54:13

genetic genealogy

54:14

also in the future.

54:16

See what you guys said?

54:18

Yes you have used genetic genealogy which makes sense since it is one of these

54:26

fastest

54:27

growing disciplines within forensic science.

54:30

Alright last question.

54:31

Would you like to receive more information on today's webinar topics?

54:35

Yes please contact me about YSTR analysis.

54:39

Yes please contact me about Yscreen.

54:41

Yes please contact me about autosomal STR analysis.

54:44

Yes please contact me about other ways to generate investigative leads or no

54:49

not at this time.

54:51

Let's jump into our Q&A then and answer any questions that have come through

54:57

the console.

54:58

Alright presenters.

55:02

Our first question is can YSTR analysis discern the differences/similarities

55:09

between father

55:10

son and then onto more distant relationships such as uncles and cousins?

55:17

I can answer that question.

55:20

So in general you see the more distant relatives will have more mutations each

55:29

other.

55:30

But if you compare the father son pairs and the cousins pairs the difference is

55:36

not that

55:37

significant.

55:42

You may use the...

55:49

There's no clear cut you can differentiate the father son pair in distant

55:54

relatives.

55:55

But to differentiate the males in the same lineage versus the unrelated you

56:01

probably can

56:02

use with WIFI for example may use four or five mutation steps to differentiate

56:10

the relationship

56:11

or not.

56:13

But hard to tell if it's what relationship.

56:16

Okay great thank you for that.

56:20

Next one you know both of you talked about genetic genealogy.

56:23

Are you familiar with many cases from outside of the US where agencies are

56:28

using genetic

56:29

genealogy to generate leads?

56:31

I haven't seen some reports.

56:35

The out of US there's been some cases used high density petals of some cases.

56:44

For example there's a report from a group of research from Sweden.

56:52

They use the whole genome sequencing data search against a jet match database

56:59

to determine

57:01

the identity of a missing person and they were able to narrow down the region

57:09

to a particular

57:10

country.

57:11

The Croatia.

57:12

So I will say that's a success by providing an impact of leads.

57:19

I'm not sure if they eventually determine identity but at least they provide

57:25

some impact

57:26

of these and also there's other countries like China and other countries.

57:31

They're also trying genealogy technology.

57:34

Okay great.

57:36

Next question.

57:37

Generally what are the criteria used to determine if a case would qualify for

57:42

familial

57:43

search?

57:44

Okay so I can take that question Johnny.

57:48

So the criteria that we typically use is that you have a full profile and code

57:54

is with no

57:54

hit and that automatically includes all those quality things that I had

57:59

mentioned previously.

58:01

Also that you leave and I don't like to term exhaust at all investigative leads

58:06

You've certainly put a lot of energy into that case and it remains unsolved.

58:09

So I guess the question is are all the leads ever exhausted?

58:12

So we tend to just stick with a lot of investigative energy has not been able

58:17

to solve that case.

58:19

We have a full profile.

58:20

It's a major case so we reserve these really for sexual assaults and homicides

58:25

and that

58:25

is really a probative sample.

58:27

We do have MOU that we put into place that ensures that investigative agencies

58:35

are willing

58:36

to proceed with the case.

58:37

We really want to spend all this effort on a case that is going to more likely

58:41

yield some

58:42

results.

58:43

So those are the things we have in place in New York State.

58:46

Okay perfect.

58:47

We've been to our next question for you Ray.

58:53

What kind of information is included in the MOU between the lab and the police

58:58

slash DA's

58:59

office?

59:00

And just in case some of not familiar, can you give us the acronym for MOU?

59:05

What does that stand for?

59:06

Sure.

59:07

Thank you very much.

59:08

So MOU stands for Memorandum of Understanding and what we really want is some

59:12

kind of a

59:13

commitment because these are cases that we're going to go through a lot of

59:17

additional efforts

59:19

to do not only the statistics on it.

59:22

We're going to do a bunch of Y testing and sort out with additional testing

59:26

some investigative

59:27

leads.

59:28

So we want that memorandum of understanding on both sides of the investigators

59:32

to say

59:32

this is a case that this will really help them.

59:34

That's not solved.

59:35

That it meets the criteria.

59:37

But also on the prosecutors side, the lawyer, is this something that with the

59:41

positive results

59:42

and they find somebody, they're going to pursue it.

59:45

So we just really want to make sure that all the parties that are at the table,

59:48

that it

59:49

meets the criteria.

59:50

It's an unsolved case.

59:52

The lead is going to really help the case and they are going to move ahead.

59:56

And what we have found is there have been a number of cases that at the lab, we

01:00:00

think

01:00:01

they're still in pursuit, but the case may have been solved some other means.

01:00:06

This is just the way to make sure you're going to put in this additional effort

01:00:10

Everyone is committed to move forward.

01:00:11

And it's actually on paper so we can get that commitment.

01:00:14

So that's what we do.

01:00:15

So the extra mile just to make sure everyone is.

01:00:18

All right, Johnny, we have a few questions for you.

01:00:24

So let's grab you back in here quickly.

01:00:28

In Chinese laboratories, which Y STR type and kits are typically used?

01:00:34

So they mostly use the Y follow-up plan and developed by a similar fisher.

01:00:40

And then there are a few other kits developed by Chinese local companies.

01:00:45

But mostly they use Y follow-up plan by similar fisher.

01:00:49

Okay, let's stick with China for a second.

01:00:55

With less than 35 Y STR loci in the Chinese database, how many hits do they get

01:01:01

per Y

01:01:02

STR search typically?

01:01:05

So it depends on the criteria you set.

01:01:10

You have many mismatches you allow.

01:01:15

Let's say you have 35 markets to search and you allow up to like three or four

01:01:21

mismatches.

01:01:23

Then you will get more hit than just four match.

01:01:30

But typically they will get about 10 to 20 on average hit.

01:01:36

It's a four match in the database.

01:01:39

Okay, let's turn to Y STR databases in the US.

01:01:46

How many Y STR databases with reference profiles exist in the United States?

01:01:52

I'm not sure how many.

01:01:57

I don't know the answer.

01:02:00

The labs allow to upload their Y profile to codists in this no statistics on

01:02:07

how many

01:02:07

Y profiles in codists.

01:02:09

And then there's an order of upload the codists.

01:02:12

So some labs are probably already cumulating some Y profiles in their local

01:02:18

name system

01:02:19

or something.

01:02:20

But there's no such kind of statistic.

01:02:23

Okay.

01:02:24

And now you can both probably answer.

01:02:26

But let's start with you.

01:02:28

What are your thoughts on Y STR database searches when you don't have an autos

01:02:33

omal STR

01:02:34

profile?

01:02:35

That's fine.

01:02:37

So it really depends if you have a Y database to search, yes, then you just

01:02:44

search it.

01:02:45

You don't lie on the Osama's database.

01:02:49

When you get hit in a Y database search, then you can just in that way hit the

01:02:54

family.

01:02:55

So then you type the Osama's STR profile from those family members.

01:03:01

Then you don't lie on the Osama's STR database.

01:03:06

Gotcha.

01:03:07

Okay.

01:03:08

Right.

01:03:09

Anything to add there?

01:03:10

Yeah.

01:03:11

And I would add, you know, anything they provide a lead can be of value.

01:03:15

I guess the challenge with Ys is because it's not going to be specific to that

01:03:18

mail but

01:03:19

include anyone in that whole patrilineal line or at the whole mail side of the

01:03:23

family

01:03:24

line, the challenge there is that you're going to look at folks that are not

01:03:29

the perpetrators.

01:03:31

So as well as long as the investigators are well advised and hence the training

01:03:35

part,

01:03:36

just to know that you have to be extremely careful with folks that they may

01:03:40

help you

01:03:40

get to the suspect, but they're not the suspect themselves.

01:03:43

So it's just that taking the care that you know you're going to get other folks

01:03:47

that

01:03:47

are included that are not the perpetrator.

01:03:50

Whereas with autosomal, we're used to when you get an inclusion, you know, it's

01:03:54

that

01:03:54

person as opposed to this indirect information.

01:03:58

Gotcha.

01:03:59

Okay.

01:04:00

All right.

01:04:01

Another one for you, right.

01:04:03

What is there a main reason why most NDIS, oh, participating labs haven't

01:04:09

incorporated

01:04:11

the IGG into their toolkit?

01:04:13

Is it cost?

01:04:14

Is it something else?

01:04:16

Yeah.

01:04:17

So it's actually several.

01:04:18

Certainly it's costly and it takes not only the cost part, it's time and any

01:04:25

new technology,

01:04:27

like this is really, you know, we think of it as old news that happened in 2018

01:04:31

in terms

01:04:31

of forensic timing, that's very quick.

01:04:35

And so because it's technology that typically we don't have in the lab to get

01:04:39

the instruments

01:04:40

in, to do the full validation, that's a big lift for many crime labs where we

01:04:45

're already

01:04:46

in a backlog situation.

01:04:48

So it's a kind of combination of the time, the instrumentation, but it does

01:04:52

come down

01:04:53

to cost and resources as well.

01:04:56

But to come up with that kind of overnight is a big challenge.

01:04:59

So right now most of, most everyone is outsourcing or sending to labs that are

01:05:05

not kind of traditionally

01:05:07

forensic or crime labs.

01:05:08

Over time, I think it's something that a number of us will be looking carefully

01:05:13

at.

01:05:13

This is something we can bring in house, you know, apply of our forensic

01:05:17

expertise.

01:05:18

Absolutely.

01:05:19

Okay.

01:05:20

Johnny, let's turn to you quickly.

01:05:24

The familial searching software that you created, is that used by the Texas

01:05:28

Department of Public

01:05:29

Safety Code Islam?

01:05:31

Yes.

01:05:32

The STELCIS, yes, and the Texas DPS lab is what's the first lab using the

01:05:38

software?

01:05:39

Yes.

01:05:40

Oh, okay.

01:05:41

That's great.

01:05:42

We have a question about the X chromosome.

01:05:46

What do you think of the X chromosome?

01:05:47

I mean, is it helpful for forensic investigations or is it not really of great

01:05:54

use?

01:05:55

I would say the X chromosome may be useful for certain tinsh cases, but

01:06:00

probably not

01:06:02

a best tool for searching relatives in the database.

01:06:07

Especially, you don't have, usually you don't have XTS in the database.

01:06:13

And also, even if you search, it's very, very complicated.

01:06:17

It's not as simple as Y or some also.

01:06:21

I would say X chromosome has a very limited value in the database age.

01:06:27

Okay.

01:06:28

Now, this is kind of a broad question, but maybe you can at least give us some

01:06:33

insight

01:06:34

into how are databases validating, certified, accredited, how are these things

01:06:40

regulated

01:06:40

and you know that we can use them?

01:06:44

So I can probably jump in and take that one.

01:06:47

Perfect.

01:06:48

For any of the databases, and I'll call the NDS databases and National DA Index

01:06:52

System,

01:06:53

those are regulated by, I believe, the DNA Identification Act of 1994.

01:06:58

So it's, there is a requirement that anybody who participates in those NDS, we

01:07:03

call them

01:07:04

kind of CODIS as an acronym, but databases have to be accredited.

01:07:09

They have to adhere to the FBI quality assurance standards.

01:07:13

So you've got all of that mandatory requirement.

01:07:16

You've got to be audited externally every two years internally, every year kind

01:07:21

of offsetting

01:07:22

that, profession's suggesting a lot of requirements.

01:07:25

So accreditation and that mandating just makes sure that there's a lot of

01:07:30

oversight.

01:07:30

Then a lot of it is security aspects and so forth.

01:07:33

So I feel that databases that are with the NDS system are extremely well

01:07:39

regulated.

01:07:40

Now the challenge when you go to the direct consumer is while those companies

01:07:44

may very

01:07:45

well look after them because it's their business, so you would expect they are.

01:07:50

But because it's not under the law or those kind of mandates, there you've got

01:07:54

terms of

01:07:54

service and all of those things that are used for genealogy.

01:07:58

And that's because it's outside of the crime lab regime that's really kind of

01:08:02

up to those

01:08:03

companies.

01:08:04

But I'll just say I have a tremendous amount of confidence in the quality and

01:08:07

integrity

01:08:08

of the NDS system and the CODIS profiles that are put into that system.

01:08:13

Absolutely, it's important.

01:08:16

Hi, Jean-G, another one for you.

01:08:19

Are you using microarrays to generate a high density S&P profile or are you

01:08:26

using whole

01:08:27

genome sequencing to then create the S&P profile to upload into jet match?

01:08:34

So in all sense, we are testing both technology for missing person cases.

01:08:42

Most microarray and whole genome sequencing, we're still working on that.

01:08:48

And the initial data shows that the microarray has pretty good sensitivity

01:08:54

better than what

01:08:55

we expected.

01:08:56

In the future, we'll probably have more data to ensure.

01:09:00

Okay, perfect.

01:09:03

You earlier in your slideshow, you showed an indirect database searching

01:09:08

comparison chart.

01:09:10

Is there a way to access that after this webinar is concluded?

01:09:14

Yes, it's on what the table is actually part of the paper that's published and

01:09:24

you can

01:09:25

send whatever you want to have the paper if you don't have access to the paper,

01:09:29

just send

01:09:30

an email to me.

01:09:31

I can share with you.

01:09:33

Perfect.

01:09:34

And I'll note here, Audience, that this webinar will also be available on the M

01:09:40

AND on the

01:09:41

forensic website.

01:09:42

So in addition to using the paper, you can get the chart from the paper.

01:09:46

You can come back and watch this anytime you want and you'll be able to see the

01:09:49

chart.

01:09:49

I'm going to have time for a few more questions.

01:09:51

Let's run through them.

01:09:53

Maybe just a couple more.

01:09:55

All right.

01:09:56

John G., what about a mitochondrial DNA database?

01:10:02

Can you kind of talk about that and what that would be like?

01:10:06

So I believe codis allow you to upload mitochondrial DNA profile to codis

01:10:13

mostly for the missing

01:10:16

person cases.

01:10:17

But probably the number of samples are probably not that big in codis.

01:10:26

And we do know that the KLDOJ did use mitochondrial DNA screening in one of

01:10:32

their familiar searching

01:10:35

case.

01:10:36

So it shows that mitochondrial DNA that they can be used in familiar search.

01:10:43

Okay.

01:10:44

For familial searching.

01:10:46

Have either of you considered searching anything less than a full or a similar

01:10:53

profile?

01:10:55

So I can speak to that one.

01:10:57

So the quick answer is yes.

01:10:59

When we started in New York because we were given a very quick mandate to get

01:11:03

familial

01:11:04

searching up and running, the original policy was for full profiles only.

01:11:10

However, as we gained experience, we've now done a validation with less than

01:11:14

full profiles.

01:11:16

We've had to increase our likelihood ratio just to make sure that we're not

01:11:20

getting

01:11:20

adventitious hits, we want to kind of narrow those candidates, the ones that

01:11:23

are more likely

01:11:24

to be actual relatives.

01:11:26

So we do have a proposal that before DNA subcommittee and commission that

01:11:32

allows us to work with

01:11:33

profiles that are not full profile.

01:11:36

So certainly somewhere there's always a line, there's always a bar, but we

01:11:40

really want to

01:11:42

try to provide good investigative leads.

01:11:44

But because we're using YSTRs to help us doing a sort there, it really does.

01:11:50

We're letting the DNA do the work in terms of doing extra lab work for

01:11:54

investigators

01:11:55

and really have much more targetedly.

01:11:58

So we are hoping to get that approved and in their future so we can expand the

01:12:02

types

01:12:02

of cases that we look at.

01:12:04

Okay, great.

01:12:06

Let's wrap up here with two more IGG questions.

01:12:10

When you're working with IGG, how do you separate the mixtures for the IGG case

01:12:18

work?

01:12:19

So I can probably speak to that too.

01:12:23

Our challenge there, we're really using technology that we're not, it's brand

01:12:29

new to us in the

01:12:29

crime lab, we're new to SNPs.

01:12:33

So because that's the profile we're currently looking at, we're relying on

01:12:37

those vendor

01:12:38

outside labs.

01:12:40

And at this point, you really need or you have to have a profile that you can

01:12:44

subtract.

01:12:45

So you can deal with a mixture and it's typical sexual assault where you're

01:12:49

going to have

01:12:49

the male assailant, female victim.

01:12:53

And if you have her profile, so it'll be about a 50/50 mixture, they can

01:12:57

subtract that out.

01:12:58

So you can deal with straightforward two person mixtures in rare circumstances

01:13:03

where you have

01:13:03

a very minor component of like a 10 to one ratio.

01:13:07

They can just subtract that out.

01:13:08

But it's really limited to that much more simple mixtures where you have the

01:13:12

full known

01:13:13

profile of one of those two people, which typically is going to be your victim.

01:13:17

So there could be some mixtures done.

01:13:19

But I'll just say it's early and hopefully as time goes, we'll be able to work

01:13:22

more and

01:13:23

more with mixtures because we see those in the majority of our forensic case

01:13:27

work.

01:13:28

That makes sense.

01:13:30

All right, last question and it's a good one.

01:13:32

It's an interesting one.

01:13:33

Do you think that the general public S&P profile added to jet matched, let's

01:13:39

say, will

01:13:39

decrease in the future and be limiting for IGG?

01:13:45

So I actually think that it will go the other way personally.

01:13:49

And of course, I'm very sold on what we do.

01:13:51

And I think we're going to take care to do it correctly.

01:13:54

I feel that as the public becomes more and more educated in what great work we

01:13:58

're doing,

01:13:58

not only to solve these cases, but to identify previously unidentified human

01:14:03

remains.

01:14:04

I feel they'll get more confidence to allow their profiles to be used by law

01:14:08

enforcement

01:14:08

or medical folks to identify these unfortunately unsolved cases where someone's

01:14:15

gone missing.

01:14:17

So over time, I think that will just grow as people become more knowledgeable.

01:14:22

But again, we'll see how it plays out.

01:14:25

But so far, when you look at the cases that have been solved, I think the

01:14:29

product speaks

01:14:29

for itself.

01:14:30

And again, we just have to be very judicious and it's used to make sure that no

01:14:34

one makes

01:14:35

any missteps in terms of privacy and so forth.

01:14:39

Absolutely.

01:14:41

Okay.

01:14:42

All right.

01:14:43

Well, audience, that's about wrapped up the time we have for the Q&A.

01:14:49

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01:15:03

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01:15:10

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documentation for your participation in today's webinar.

01:15:29

And we look forward to seeing you next time.