Join Michael Garvey, Director of the Office of Forensic Science, and Ryan Gallagher, Criminalistics Unit Manager, both of the Philadelphia Police Department, as well as Robert O'Brien, Forensic Biology Section Leader, from the National Forensic Science Technology Center, for a candid look at new ways to combat crime. Director Garvey will describe the Philadelphia Police Department's vision of transparent policing through objective forensic science. Learn how his agency is expanding their laboratory toolbox to drive actionable intelligence that exonerates the innocent, identifies subjects, and links patterns to solve and reduce crime. Robert will share data from case-type sample testing to demonstrate the performance of Rapid and traditional DNA methods and procedures. In this webinar, you will learn more about: •Best practices for the non-CODIS use of Rapid DNA results from crime scene evidence •Laboratory considerations for implementing a Rapid DNA program •Tips and tricks for maximizing Rapid DNA results from evidence samples •Post-Rapid DNA confirmatory testing with traditional DNA testing methods
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Empowering arrestee booking with rapid DNA A state police crime laboratory and sheriff’s department partnered to improve crime-fighting using the latest DNA testing technology
Fishers Police Department Rapid DNA Investigative Leads Program
0:00
Welcome to Advancing Criminal Investigations,
0:02
Rapid DNA Program Considerations,
0:04
brought to you by Forensic and sponsored by Thermo Fisher Scientific.
0:08
This is the third webinar in the 2021 Future Trends
0:11
In forensic DNA Technology Series.
0:13
My name is Michelle Taylor, Editor-in-Chief of Forensic,
0:16
and I will be your moderator throughout.
0:18
For today's webinar, you can earn one hour of continuing education credit.
0:23
Following the conclusion of the webinar, you will receive an email with
0:27
information on how to obtain
0:29
CE Credit Documentation.
0:30
We have a great lineup scheduled to present to you today,
0:33
but before we begin, I'd like to take just a minute to cover a few logistics.
0:37
At the end of the presentations, we will hold a question and answer session.
0:43
To ask a question, click on the Ask a Question tab in the upper right corner of
0:48
the screen.
0:48
Please also take note that the right side of the screen features an overview of
0:53
today's webinar,
0:54
as well as more information about our speakers.
0:56
If you have a technical question during today's event,
0:59
click on the Test Your Connection button on the bottom of your screen.
1:03
From there, you can access additional webinar support.
1:05
We also invite you to use the social media widgets beneath the webinar
1:09
to share with your friends and colleagues.
1:11
First today, you will hear from Michael Garvey,
1:16
Director of the Office of Forensic Science with the Philadelphia Police
1:19
Department.
1:20
There, he provides oversight to all forensic operations,
1:24
including maintaining national quality standards and advancing the city's
1:27
forensic capabilities.
1:28
Director Garvey also serves as an advisor to the Philadelphia Police Department
1:33
on issues
1:33
related to Homeland Security and Intelligence.
1:36
Prior to joining the Philadelphia Police Department,
1:39
Director Garvey served the U.S. government for 15 years with the FBI and CIA.
1:43
In these positions, he worked traditional criminal casework,
1:47
counter-terrorism cases, and other intelligence operations around the globe.
1:54
Next, you will hear from Robert O'Brien, the Forensic Biology
1:58
Section Lead at the National Forensic Science Center at Florida International
2:01
University.
2:02
Robert conducts forensic biology research, including test plan design and
2:07
performs experiments
2:08
to evaluate equipment and techniques used in biological collection and DNA
2:13
analysis.
2:13
His technology evaluations have been published as reports, presentations,
2:18
and scientific posters at industry events, and reference publications.
2:23
He has developed and delivered training for new technologies, including rapid
2:26
DNA
2:27
instrumentation, and advises operators on tests and techniques available for
2:31
field use
2:32
in biological samples detection and screening.
2:34
And lastly, Director Garvey's colleague, Ryan Gallagher, the Criminalistics
2:40
Unit Manager
2:41
with the Philadelphia Police Department's Office of Forensic Science, will join
2:45
us for
2:45
the Q&A portion of the webinar. As a Criminalistics Unit Manager, Ryan is
2:50
responsible for the daily
2:51
operations of the DNA Laboratory, which processes forensic casework for the
2:55
city of Philadelphia.
2:56
Ryan began his career in forensics with the Philadelphia Police Department in
3:00
2006.
3:01
For more than 10 years, he worked in the Criminalistics Unit,
3:04
processing hundreds of forensic cases for biological fluids and ignitable
3:08
liquids.
3:09
For the past five years, Ryan has overseen the operations of the Criminalistic
3:13
Unit.
3:13
Thank you for joining us today for the third webinar in the 2021 Future Trends
3:20
in Forensic
3:20
DNA Technology Series. Mark your calendars because the series continues after
3:25
the summer,
3:26
with the next one planned for October 7th. Please be sure to check your email
3:30
for more
3:30
information on how to obtain CE Credit Documentation for your participation in
3:34
today's webinar,
3:36
and we look forward to seeing you next time. Now, without further ado, let's
3:40
get underway.
3:40
Hello, my name is Michael Garvey. I am the Director of the Office of Forensic
3:47
Science,
3:47
the Philadelphia Police Department. Today, I will be talking about expanding
3:52
the DNA toolbox, or
3:54
really how we have used technical intelligence or Friends of Science to drive
4:01
investigations,
4:02
to try to encourage the concept of transparent intelligence led police.
4:08
The primary focus of today's talk will be rapid DNA and how we have implemented
4:14
rapid DNA into our
4:16
technical intelligence program. So, everything about this new way of looking at
4:26
forensic science is focusing on the mission and it's focusing on intelligence
4:33
led investigation,
4:35
transparent policing, intelligence led policing, data driven policing. These
4:43
are all terms that
4:44
over the last year have actually become more important than probably ever
4:48
before. People want to know
4:51
that law enforcement is using the proper tools to get to the truth. And
4:58
arguably, there is no better
5:00
tool for this than properly performed forensic science. And when we focus the
5:07
mission on intelligence
5:09
led investigations, and we're also always going to be prepared for trial. Now,
5:15
it is, and it does,
5:17
require a refocusing of the efforts that we typically done in crime labs. Trad
5:24
itionally,
5:25
crime labs were resource limited. So, we had to prioritize things based quite
5:32
often on trial
5:33
data. For those investigations that are given the most priority, those that are
5:39
being asked about
5:40
the most, those that are very sensitive. And we would also often look at this
5:46
as reporting
5:47
our findings to the submitter of the evidence. The case gets submitted, the
5:54
results get reported
5:56
to that person. And of course, on top of all of this, it always had to be done
6:00
objectively,
6:01
reliably, and independently to never compromise quality. But we know that that
6:08
was
6:08
restrally scratching the surface and under the surface is the gigantic iceberg
6:14
of where we could
6:15
actually do more if given the resources or if maybe we've rethought some of our
6:20
processes so that
6:21
we could drive more investigations. So in a modified approach to this, we are
6:27
intelligence driven.
6:29
We are trying to aid investigations as early as possible to focus efforts on
6:34
exonerating
6:35
the innocent in a more timely manner, linking cases to each other more quickly,
6:40
and identifying true perpetrators of crime. When we do this, forensic science
6:47
or technical
6:48
intelligence improves the way our law enforcement agencies will actually
6:53
investigate crime,
6:55
arguably causing higher closure rates, being able to solve crime more, and
7:01
ultimately
7:02
preventing crime and increasing public safety. In order to do this, of course,
7:08
we have to leverage
7:09
resources. We have to look at new partnerships, look at new workflows, and
7:14
maybe modify workflows
7:15
that we currently have. We are probably still going to be resource limited. I
7:19
can tell you we are here.
7:22
But by changing the workflows and leveraging resources, we can do more with the
7:27
resources we have.
7:28
We also have to think about changes after the fact. Who do we submit reports to
7:34
? How do we share
7:36
information, not just to the submitter, but to other stakeholders such as
7:40
intelligence
7:41
bureaus and things like that, so that we can actually generate larger level
7:46
leads and actually
7:47
generate supplemental products, perhaps products on crime trends, or even in
7:53
some cases,
7:54
identifying potential areas where there might be a retaliatory shooting.
8:01
So these are things that forensic science can help law enforcement in general,
8:08
if we get the
8:09
information out there, and we let that information be transformed into
8:13
intelligence.
8:15
And of course, throughout this, we still must be objective, reliable, and
8:19
independent.
8:20
So let's look at how we started this. In the beginning, most of us throughout
8:27
the country,
8:28
the traditional DNA testing, we did it in accredited laboratories, in-house
8:33
labs or public partner
8:35
labs or vendor labs, and it was evidence from a single case compared to the
8:39
subjects of that case,
8:40
with a single report being issued and possibly going to court for that one case
8:46
And we knew at that time very quickly that that wasn't enough.
8:49
So we began to make local DNA databases where we pooled the profiles and where
8:55
we searched the
8:56
profiles and where we found linkages between cases and linkages to subjects,
9:02
and we were able to
9:02
produce actionable intelligence. And crime labs throughout the country did this
9:08
in the early days
9:08
of DNA testing. And that wasn't a big enough toolbox either. So we moved on to
9:14
CODIS, the combined
9:15
DNA index system, a very large toolbox in which local laboratories can search
9:21
profiles, uploads
9:22
in state systems, and search profiles across a whole state, uploads in the
9:27
national system,
9:28
managed by the FBI, and search profiles throughout the whole country. Without
9:32
question, CODIS was,
9:35
is, and will continue to be, one of the most important technical intelligence
9:40
tools our country has
9:42
for law enforcement. Now, CODIS also brings with it some requirements in order
9:48
to maintain
9:49
the quality of the CODIS profiles. All CODIS entries require that the sample
9:56
has been worked
9:57
or reviewed by CODIS laboratory. So that means if we know that primal
10:05
laboratories are always
10:06
not resource properly, then that means they're not always going to have the
10:11
capacity to work
10:12
every case that is submitted to them. So sometimes, because of the funding,
10:20
which in impacts
10:21
prioritization and prioritization, it goes hand in hand with a laboratory's
10:26
capacity,
10:27
some agencies are looking for other alternatives or have had to look for other
10:32
alternatives
10:33
outside of their CODIS laboratory for cases that may not meet the current
10:38
priority system in place.
10:40
So people have looked to expand their DNA toolbox. Now, here in the
10:47
Philadelphia area, we've
10:49
one of the things we've done is obviously we do traditional DNA testing. We do
10:55
outsourcing of
10:56
DNA samples, but we also looked at how can we leverage some other capabilities,
11:01
some other
11:01
technologies. And one of those is rapid DNA. In our rapid DNA program, we look
11:07
at reference samples.
11:09
We're able to, in the crime laboratory, have reference samples that come in,
11:16
get worked through
11:16
our rapid DNA program. That takes time and energy off of our DNA analysts that
11:23
are working forensic
11:24
evidence, and they can prioritize working evidence. It has also led to quicker
11:31
CODIS confirmation
11:33
testing for them. So when we get a CODIS hit and we need to collect another
11:37
sample to confirm that
11:40
hit, we can quickly process that CODIS confirmation on our rapid instruments.
11:45
But it also means that
11:47
we can do other reference samples as well for more investigative leads. But
11:52
outside of reference
11:54
samples, investigative leads can also be in the form of crime scene samples.
12:00
Crime scene samples
12:01
that meet our validation criteria that we've shown that certain quality and
12:07
quantity samples,
12:09
where we can preserve enough sample for traditional DNA testing, we can employ
12:14
rapid DNA on
12:16
to give us more timely investigative leads. Now, the good news there is the FBI
12:21
task force on
12:22
rapid DNA has issued guidelines for that. Our program follows those, and we'll
12:28
speak more on that
12:29
briefly. One other quick point that I want to make is there is a difference
12:34
between rapid DNA
12:36
as it's traditionally defined and modified rapid DNA. So all depending on if
12:40
you're a law enforcement
12:42
agency without a crime lab, or if you're an accredited crime lab, you may use
12:46
one or both of these
12:48
terms. Rapid DNA traditionally is the SWAV in profile out, lights out process,
12:57
where through
12:58
the rapid process, you put a SWAV in, you get a profile out and through the
13:02
expert system,
13:03
you can rely on that profile. We're talking about single source samples, high
13:07
quantity,
13:08
high quality. Modified rapid DNA is using the rapid DNA instrument, but in the
13:14
hands of a
13:15
qualified DNA analyst, that can do some more interpretations. So there's these
13:21
two approaches,
13:23
but in either approach, let's be clear, crime scene profiles generated by rapid
13:28
DNA technology
13:29
are not eligible for codes. So these profiles cannot be searched into codes. In
13:35
certain
13:36
situations, reference samples can be and will be able to be entered into codes,
13:45
especially when
13:45
we start talking about booking stations in some areas that have the proper laws
13:50
. So let's unlock
13:52
that world of rapid intelligence or rapid DNA intelligence a little bit more.
13:57
Like I just mentioned, some places where they have laws that permit DNA
14:02
collection from an
14:03
individual upon their arrest, there will be very soon, because there are
14:09
programs being set up
14:10
in conjunction with the FBI, and there are pilot programs out there right now,
14:15
where upon arrest,
14:16
samples are taken, and those samples work in a rapid DNA system, will be
14:23
eligible to be put
14:24
directly into CODIS. Outside of that type of processing, as I already said,
14:29
there's other
14:30
reference samples sort of in the same way that can be processed by those of us,
14:36
for example,
14:36
in Pennsylvania, where we do not have a resty law, but we still have people
14:42
that are being
14:43
interviewed or other contact with law enforcement where through informed
14:48
voluntary consent,
14:50
warrants, or court orders, we would obtain reference samples from these
14:54
individuals. Rapid DNA is
14:57
used to process those samples for timely information. Rapid DNA is also useful
15:04
for investigative leads
15:06
at a crime scene. So samples can be collected at a crime scene, and be brought
15:11
back to our laboratory
15:13
to be put on the rapid instrument if they meet our criteria, and there's enough
15:17
sample remaining
15:19
for traditional DNA testing, as well as subjects in that
15:24
for that crime scene that could be compared almost in real time, potentially,
15:32
excluding people that we don't want to focus the investigation on anymore, and
15:38
perhaps focusing
15:40
the investigation on other DNA profiles that have been obtained. We can also
15:46
look at disaster
15:48
victim ID. So in the case of a large, like a plane crash or a train crash,
15:57
samples could be collected
16:00
from victims, as well as family members, and the rapid DNA instrument either in
16:05
the field,
16:06
or with samples being brought back to the lab, could be used for human
16:10
identification in a very
16:12
timely manner. And in sort of the same way, we can also consider things like
16:18
human traffic.
16:19
About 25 to 30 percent of all human traffic individuals throughout the world
16:25
are children.
16:25
So, and most major cities have a human trafficking problem. So when we may need
16:34
to identify
16:35
individuals who are being human trafficked, DNA testing is one of those
16:39
possibilities. Rapid DNA,
16:42
provides a quick alternative to be able to do those identifications.
16:48
Now, when we're thinking about all those possibilities of putting into your
16:53
program,
16:54
we have to consider how do you set up the rapid DNA program. And here at the
16:59
Philadelphia Police
17:00
Department, here are some of the categories that we looked at when we were
17:04
setting up our program.
17:05
Now, there's no coincidence here that these same categories are categories that
17:10
are talked about
17:11
by the FBI's rapid DNA test force. I'm not going to go into these in great
17:16
detail,
17:17
because that would be a whole talk in and of itself. But let's just quickly
17:21
look at a few.
17:21
Let's consider administrative practices. These are going to be your overarching
17:26
practices of
17:27
how your program is going to work. The primary consideration here would be that
17:32
if you're a law
17:33
enforcement agency, or that if you're a law enforcement agency that does not
17:39
have its own prime
17:40
laboratory, you want to make sure that any rapid DNA program that you're
17:45
setting up is done in
17:47
partnership, is done in direct collaboration with your local CODIS laboratory,
17:53
because they're going
17:54
to be able to help you with all the rest of the parts of this process.
17:59
Instruments need to be
18:01
validated. Whether you're in the crime lab, we're going to be using it in the
18:04
field.
18:04
Instruments need to be validated. Protocols need to be written and followed.
18:09
And then when it comes to
18:11
staffing, whether you're in a crime lab, or whether you're a law enforcement
18:15
agency,
18:16
you're going to have to identify the staff, and you're going to have to train
18:18
them appropriately
18:20
for what they're going to be responsible for. And you're going to need to
18:23
proficiency test them
18:24
as well to make sure they are competent. You're going to have to create
18:29
collection protocols.
18:30
What type of evidence will you collect? What type of evidence will you not
18:34
collect?
18:34
How are you going to collect it to preserve sample for your primary and
18:40
traditional
18:41
STR typing back at the crime lab laboratory? How are you going to manage
18:46
comparisons and
18:48
reports? What will they say? What won't they say? And making sure that everyone
18:54
knows the difference
18:55
between a laboratory report with a formal comparison that includes stats and an
19:02
investigative or
19:03
intelligence report, which may just give the primary indication of a match or a
19:08
no match.
19:08
You have to know the difference, and it has to be clearly defined. And then you
19:15
're going to have
19:15
to have conversations about what does this mean for court? And again, this is
19:20
where collaboration
19:22
with your local crime laboratory will be extremely helpful. Now, as you move
19:27
through this process
19:28
creating this program, understand that the FBI Rapid DNA Task Force has already
19:34
put out
19:35
considerations and best practices for law enforcement use. So these are
19:40
considerations
19:40
whether you are working this in a crime lab or outside of a crime lab to help
19:45
you set up your
19:46
program for Rapid DNA today. Also, leaders in the forensic community in this
19:52
country and across
19:53
the globe have also written expectations for future developments of the
19:59
technology to push
20:01
the Rapid DNA companies to improve the technologies to the point where we hope
20:08
someday that we will
20:09
be able to analyze crime scene samples in certain, you know, meeting certain
20:16
criteria
20:16
and those profiles be eligible for COAS. We are not there yet, but that is the
20:23
future expectation
20:24
that if we can continue to improve these capabilities that our Rapid DNA
20:28
programs right now that are
20:30
used for local investigative leads may also at some point, done properly, be
20:36
able to be put into
20:36
COAS. Now, in the meantime, we don't have access to COAS for rapid DNA profiles
20:43
. So some people may
20:44
question, well, what's the point then? This is really just like our traditional
20:49
capabilities.
20:50
We have a case, we work the case, we have a subject or not, but we don't have
20:55
the ability to search
20:56
anything. Well, that's true if you don't go back to that old second thought,
21:02
which is local DNA
21:04
databases. So here in the Delaware Valley region, or here in the Philadelphia
21:10
police,
21:10
we created a non-COAS regional DNA database to compare legally collected DNA
21:17
samples,
21:18
whether they be reference or crime scene samples, that have been worked in an
21:23
accredited laboratory
21:24
or an approved Rapid DNA program. Now make no mistake about this, local DNA
21:29
databases will not
21:33
replace COAS. They can augment it though. So whereas right now we may not be
21:39
able to put certain
21:40
reliable validated profiles into COAS, these local regional databases give us
21:47
an alternative
21:48
to generate actionable intelligence to help solve and prevent crime. So locally
21:57
, the
21:58
Delaware Valley is in the southeastern region of Pennsylvania. Our system is
22:05
run and managed by
22:06
the Philadelphia Police Department Office of Forensic Science. We are a CODIS
22:10
laboratory. We
22:11
are fully accredited QAS compliant. So we manage the regional DNA database. We
22:19
partner with our
22:20
neighbors in Bucks County and Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, both of which
22:26
have extensive local
22:29
DNA programs, primarily utilizing fully accredited vendor laboratories, and
22:36
both of which do have
22:37
had access to local DNA databases for several years. The problem is these local
22:45
DNA databases
22:47
did not communicate with each other. So we knew there were investigative leads
22:52
being missed.
22:53
The good news is when we brought online Rapid DNA technology, when we brought
23:00
on Rapid Hit ID
23:01
within Philadelphia, that's also online in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and
23:07
Montgomery County,
23:08
Pennsylvania, that the platform that gives us the capability to do rapid DNA
23:15
technology also
23:16
provided us the fundamental capability to connect our systems to actually
23:25
create a local regional
23:27
DNA database without having to start from scratch. So we use the Rapid Hit
23:35
platform as the basic
23:38
backbone of our Delaware Valley investigative DNA database. Through this system
23:46
, we have signed
23:47
MOUs. We have required validations, protocols, we have QA requirements, legal
23:54
requirements on
23:55
what can be collected, what can be put in. We have IT requirements for safety
24:00
and security,
24:01
and we also have protocols and requirements on how we will actually put out
24:07
investigative leads.
24:09
So a couple of quick examples. Now, what you're clearly going to see here in
24:14
these two examples
24:16
that I will provide is they're not arguably rapid, but I wanted to show them
24:21
because it's a good
24:22
contrast of where we were and where we are now. So we have, when we went online
24:30
with our regional
24:32
system in January of 2021, we immediately obtained several DNA kits. So let's
24:40
look at this one very
24:41
quickly. We have a sexual assault kit processed by the Philadelphia police back
24:46
in 2017. No leads,
24:50
no hits, no codis hits. Now, Lux County, Pennsylvania, in September of 2019,
24:58
they processed a reference
25:01
sample via Rapid DNA. However, we did not have a connected system yet. So even
25:08
though 695 days went
25:11
past and there would have been a hit, there is no Delaware Valley system. So
25:17
there is no hit.
25:17
481 days after that, when we go online, we get the hit. In our current system,
25:26
when Lux County processes a reference sample and puts it into their Rapid Hit
25:34
system,
25:35
and it meets all the QAQC checks, it would move over to the DNA system for the
25:42
region,
25:42
and we would have obtained that hit immediately. So you can see going forward,
25:47
this is going to be a much more powerful timely tool. Case number two, if you
25:53
look at it like this,
25:55
one day difference between a crime scene sample being worked in a profile
26:02
obtained in a Bucks
26:03
County vehicle theft and a sexual assault case in Philadelphia, one day. But we
26:13
did not know
26:14
those two cases were linked together at all. 2028 days later, when the David
26:21
went live,
26:22
we got that hit. Well, I think the hit would have been much more timely, would
26:28
have been much
26:28
more actionable intelligence if it would have been produced in July of 2015. We
26:34
now know
26:35
going forward, these type of hits will be obtained immediately because of the
26:41
partnership,
26:42
because of the profile of sharing, but also because of our rapid DNA
26:46
capabilities and
26:47
the connectivity that using the same instruments provides us. So as we continue
26:56
from here,
26:57
what is the PPV OFS looking at as we continue figuring out how do we actually
27:03
do technical
27:04
intelligence, dry investigations forward? Clearly, we're going to continue
27:09
traditional DNA laboratory
27:11
work that's not going anywhere. We will continue full access to CODIS, the
27:15
eldest, the estus, and
27:16
the end of searching profiles throughout the whole country. We will continue to
27:20
work with the FBI
27:22
on our partnership of hopefully as we further develop our rapid DNA program and
27:28
other people
27:29
with developed their rapid DNA programs, working to the point of someday in
27:33
maybe several years,
27:35
maybe sooner, getting rapid DNA profiles into CODIS. Again, CODIS isn't going
27:40
anywhere and it is
27:42
one of the most powerful technical intelligence tools U.S. law enforcement has.
27:47
We will locally
27:49
still grow and use our rapid DNA database system linking it to other regional
27:55
non-CODIS
27:56
DNA databases to find those missing hits. We also utilize other enhanced DNA
28:03
techniques,
28:04
whether that be genetic genealogy, genetic phenotyping, and we will continue to
28:08
expand
28:09
the testing that we will consider, whether that's through traditional DNA or
28:13
through rapid DNA testing.
28:15
Expanding testing, what I mean is not new technologies but new items that we
28:21
may work.
28:22
What other types of items should we be working that will aid us in solving
28:28
crimes, identifying
28:31
crime patterns? So if we look at crime gun violence right now, it is surging.
28:37
So when we
28:37
consider what type of evidence should we be working? Should we be working more
28:43
of the swabs from firearms?
28:46
Should we be working things like fired cartridge casings? What is the next
28:52
stage in forensic
28:53
technical intelligence? DNA is going to be a part of it no matter what. So as
28:59
you ask your question,
29:01
what size DNA toolbox is right for you, it's basically going to be based on
29:05
your resources
29:06
and managing your resources effectively, efficiently, and economically to
29:12
leverage those resources in
29:14
the best way you can through traditional DNA capabilities and rapid DNA
29:20
capabilities to
29:21
accomplish the mission, which is generate actionable intelligence, exonerate
29:26
the innocent, link cases
29:28
to each other, identify true perpetrators of crime, and increase public safety.
29:33
So with that,
29:36
I thank you and I thank our partners throughout the Delaware Valley region.
29:41
Your next presentation
29:42
will be more technical on some of the, you know, do's and don'ts for rapid DNA
29:49
technology.
29:50
And once that is concluded, we will have questions and answers.
29:53
My name is Robert O'Brien. I am the forensic biology section lead at the
29:59
National Forensic
30:00
Science Technology Center at Florida International University. NFSDC is also a
30:07
partner with Thermo
30:08
Fisher Scientific. We are the rapid DNA Center of Excellence. So today I'm
30:13
going to be talking
30:13
about some of the sample testing that we've been doing since we've become the
30:17
Center of Excellence
30:18
and some of our most recent work. So for an overview, what we're going to deal
30:23
with is I'm going to
30:24
look back on stuff we've done on reference samples, some low-level samples,
30:29
some mock crime team
30:30
samples, on most recently bone samples, and then some other testing we've done
30:35
when it comes to
30:35
the transporting of run samples back to the laboratory for rerunning.
30:39
So just a quick overview, the rapid ID system is a single instrument,
30:44
processes reference samples in about 90 minutes. It presents other samples like
30:50
blood and saliva
30:51
samples in about 95 minutes. It has two different sample cartridges. You've got
30:57
the ACE cartridge,
30:58
which has a purple label, and that's what you use for your reference samples.
31:01
And then you have
31:02
the rapid Intel cartridge, which is a pink label, and that's what you're going
31:06
to use for your blood
31:07
and other lower-level type samples. The sample cartridges are good for about
31:12
eight months,
31:13
refrigerated, or two months at room temperature, and they both use the Global
31:17
Father Express chemistry.
31:18
So just another overview, I did discuss this on an earlier webinar. The ACE
31:23
sample cartridge is
31:24
intended for use with reference samples like buckleswaps. It can also be used
31:29
for other high-level samples.
31:30
For example, blood, if you have a lot of blood, it can actually work with the
31:34
ACE cartridge,
31:35
and the runtime is about 90 minutes. The rapid Intel sample cartridge, that's
31:40
intended for
31:40
use with single-source samples, but also crime-scene type samples. So if you
31:44
have lower levels of blood,
31:46
if you have saliva, you know, if you drive saliva, dry blood, for example, all
31:49
these will work.
31:50
It does have an improved performance for low-level samples, and it's used for
31:55
blood,
31:55
drinking containers, cigarette butts, and other similar samples. And that
31:59
runtime is 95 minutes.
32:00
This is just an example of some of the data we generated when we did 20 buckles
32:06
wabs.
32:06
So this had a 100% first pass success rate with the ACE cartridge. That
32:11
basically means,
32:12
as you can see on the left-hand side, we have a green check mark, and all of
32:16
these were run
32:17
one time, and every time they gave us a full profile. In order for you to get a
32:21
green check
32:21
mark in this system, it means you literally have a perfect profile. There's no
32:25
imbalances,
32:27
there is no dropout or anything like that. So that's what a green check mark
32:30
means. So all of
32:31
these samples, different buckleswabs, will run, and we got first pass success
32:35
rate of 100%.
32:36
Some of the lower-level sample testing we did, we did do a range of input from
32:44
1,280 nanograms
32:45
to 10 nanograms. This is the total DNA input. So not nanograms for microliter,
32:50
this is actually
32:51
total nanograms. And about the 20 nanogram markers where we started to see some
32:57
dropping off
32:58
in the number of loci that were recovered. So as you can see at the 20 nanogram
33:03
level,
33:03
out of the triple kit set we did, we did have one at 20, out of 21, another one
33:07
at 18,
33:08
out of 21, and a 10 nanograms, actually we only had one sample that had dropout
33:14
, which was 17
33:14
out of 21 loci we did get. So even though there was dropout at these levels, it
33:19
is important to
33:20
know that still more than enough data to make an identification. So you can
33:24
easily use this
33:25
for comparison purposes with lower-level type samples. Here is just a graph
33:31
representing what we did
33:32
with saliva samples on the different volumes. So this was not based on nan
33:35
ograms, this is actually
33:36
based on volume of DNA. And obviously at 8 microliters of saliva, we got 100%
33:42
of the alleles recovered,
33:44
and at one microliter of saliva, we actually got 85% of alleles recovered. Once
33:50
again,
33:50
plenty of data, good enough to make a comparison. For blood samples, we went
33:56
down to a little lower,
33:57
so we went down to half a microliter, and we started at a lower, so we started
34:00
at four microliters.
34:02
And there we went from a 99% recovery to 98%, and the lowest was 96%. So once
34:09
again,
34:09
96% of our alleles were recovered, and therefore we would definitely be able to
34:14
use that for comparison
34:15
purposes. Now, we also did here at the NFSCC, we did a lot of sample retesting.
34:23
So the idea behind
34:24
this is if you run a swab on the rapid ID, and for some reason you had to take
34:29
that same swab
34:30
back to the laboratory, and we run it using conventional DNA methods, was there
34:35
enough DNA left on that
34:36
swab to do that. So here we have, this is an example of the quantities. Now,
34:40
these quantities
34:41
are on the swab after it was removed from the rapid ID, and then run using
34:47
conventional DNA
34:48
methods, and quantified using quantifiler trio, the extraction process was the
34:52
prep filer express
34:54
on the automated robot. So as you can see from a buckle swab, even after
34:58
running it on the rapid
34:59
ID, we had a lot of DNA left over, got full profiles every time. We did
35:04
different varying numbers of
35:06
swipes on the cheek, because different agencies may have different requirements
35:11
as how many times
35:12
to swipe. So we did anywhere from one swipe to six swipes, no difference. We
35:16
got full DNA profiles
35:18
every time, and then we did some blood samples, all the way from 75 microliters
35:22
of blood, all the way
35:23
down to 20 microliters of blood, once again, we were able to get full profiles.
35:28
And as you all know,
35:29
typically for quantitate for amplification, you need at least one nanogram of
35:34
DNA. So when you look
35:35
at the nanograms of DNA, total nanograms of DNA left on that swab, after it was
35:39
run with rapid ID,
35:41
you can see that we could have actually generated a lot more of this profile
35:45
several times. So the
35:46
swab was able, could have been tested a lot more than we did.
35:51
Here's just a few examples of some of the data that we got off of. These were
35:57
more mock crime
35:58
scene type samples. So here we have a cigarette butt, this was actually left
36:02
outside. So what we did
36:04
is we had somebody smoke the cigarette butt, and then we had them drop it into
36:07
a container,
36:08
it was left outside for approximately a 24-hour period before it was collected.
36:12
Now it was exposed
36:14
to the heat of the day being in Florida and the humidity. It was not exposed to
36:18
being rained on,
36:20
because it was in a covered area, but it was left, it was outside. And here you
36:25
can see that we do
36:26
have some alleles in yellow, but for the most part, this is definitely giving
36:30
us enough data to make
36:31
comparison purposes. And of course, we were actually able to compare it to the
36:35
individual who smoked,
36:37
and definitely matched him at all the allele calls that we got. So this was
36:44
definitely a success.
36:47
This was from a cell phone, someone's cell phone. So this is where we're going
36:51
into more of a
36:51
category of touch DNA, and the results are not as high as what we saw with the
36:56
cigarette butt,
36:57
because the cigarette butt actually had saliva entailed into it. This is more
37:01
touch, sweat,
37:02
but even from this cigarette, the cell phone, we can tell it's definitely a
37:06
male profile.
37:07
We do have at least one, two, three, four, five, six, seven areas where we have
37:15
heterozygotes.
37:17
So we know that at least all the data is present at those seven areas. And if
37:21
you wanted to use
37:22
this, for example, an investigative lead purpose, you can definitely use this
37:26
to match it against
37:27
a suspect standard to give you an indication that person was present, to
37:31
possibly warrant for the
37:32
investigation or to exclude them from the crime. This was off of a side of a
37:38
gun. So this was the
37:40
side of the gun that we knew the person was handling it, and this was the side
37:43
of the gun that touched
37:44
their palm most. So once again, we swabbed the side of the gun and we ran it.
37:50
We can tell it's
37:50
a male profile, and we actually have a lot of the data which then match the
37:55
person who we ran
37:57
their reference sample. So once again, as an investigative lead, this is going
38:00
to give you a
38:01
lot of useful information to either exclude or warrant further investigation
38:05
into an individual.
38:06
We did do a plucked single here. So the route was in very good shape. We pl
38:13
ucked it. We were able
38:14
to see the epithelial sheet while we were testing it. The hair was simply
38:18
placed into the cartridge,
38:19
and then we put the stick of a swab to hold it down and to hold it in place.
38:24
Because if you don't,
38:25
the hair will actually float up with the region. So you don't want that to
38:28
happen. You want the
38:28
sample to get submerged when it's in the intel cartridge. And as you can see,
38:33
we got a beautiful
38:34
full profile here. We did the color of a t-shirt. So somebody wore their t-
38:40
shirt, they worked out,
38:41
and then they lent it to us to swab to first to swab. We did swab the color of
38:48
it. There are
38:49
two areas where there were possible locations of a mixture. We were not able to
38:55
determine who that
38:56
was. It did not come from anybody who swabbed the t-shirt, and obviously did
38:59
not come from the
39:00
wearer. So we weren't absolutely too sure about that. But for the most part, we
39:04
got very usable
39:05
data here, and once again, more than enough for comparison purposes. And then a
39:10
soda can. The soda
39:12
cans were really good. We did several soda cans, and they for the most part
39:15
gave us full DNA
39:16
profiles because you've got the transfer saliva, and as you know, saliva has
39:20
very high content of
39:21
DNA. So that was one of the really good things with soda cans. And this is just
39:25
a typical example
39:26
of the DNA profile we got off of a soda can. So this is a very good for
39:31
obviously comparison purposes.
39:33
I mean, this is CODIS quality data here. We did do some tests also with face
39:39
masks.
39:39
And basically what we did for the face mask is that they were worn for
39:43
different periods of time,
39:45
16 hours, 8 hours, 4 hours, and 2 hours. The mask was then swabbed and run in
39:50
the rapid ID.
39:51
The swab was removed after running in the rapid ID and then run using
39:54
conventional methods.
39:56
And we got full profiles on both the rapid ID and using conventional methods.
40:01
So obviously in the
40:01
height of COVID, everybody was wearing a face mask and a lot of times they
40:05
would be discarded.
40:06
So we were able to show that you could definitely get DNA off the face mask if
40:10
anybody's running
40:11
using it for anywhere from 2 to 16 hours. Even though things have probably
40:17
calmed down with the
40:17
mask a little bit now at the time of this recording, in the future this can
40:21
happen again, or it just
40:22
goes to show you that masks in general, something that somebody may use to
40:26
cover the nose on the
40:27
mouth will be good for rapid DNA testing. The latest thing we've worked on is
40:34
some bone samples.
40:35
So we actually procured a bone, a frozen femur, and we cut it into one in
40:39
segments with a band saw
40:41
just so that we would have different segments to test under different
40:43
conditions. One thing
40:45
that was done is that after we cut it with the band saw, I actually took a swab
40:49
and just simply
40:50
swabbed the bone dust that was on the band saw that was left behind. And the sw
40:56
ab of the bone
40:56
dust from the freezing femur was done at femur was run on the Intel cartridge.
41:01
So we ran it the
41:01
first time we got a full profile. So I took the same swab out, placed into
41:05
another cartridge,
41:06
ran it again, full profile took it out, ran it again, full profile ran again,
41:11
and still a full
41:12
profile. So after three times, after four times total, we got a full DNA
41:16
profile every time from
41:18
this bone dust that was run on the rapid hit ID and the Intel cartridge. This
41:23
is an example,
41:24
I'm sorry, this is an example of the DNA profile after the fourth run. So as
41:29
you can see from the
41:30
peak heights, we're still seeing peak heights in the 7000 range. We have heter
41:35
ozygotes at 6000,
41:37
that I really think that I could have run this sample again and again. Now
41:41
there is a six showing
41:42
up in the DYS 391, which I believe could possibly pull up because this actually
41:47
was a female bone.
41:48
And as you can see, there's no amelogennan. So there is part, I know why the am
41:52
elogennan. So it
41:53
is possible that that is pull up into possibly the 11 that is in the T-POCs.
41:58
But once again,
42:00
full DNA profile, thinking about using this rapid ID on bones for
42:05
identification purposes,
42:07
definitely on fresher bones, frozen bones, it works great. Now we did another
42:12
bone study. So here's
42:14
an example of where some of the segments that we cut from the bone. So we have
42:17
two bones, bone one
42:18
and bone two. Bone one was a little bit longer but not as wide, not as wide of
42:24
a diameter. So that
42:25
was about nearly five centimeters, so just under two inches. Bone two is about
42:30
three centimeters and
42:31
just about one inch. So both bones were sampled using the protocol from the job
42:37
aid. So with our
42:40
help, we helped Thermophisher Scientific develop a job aid. And this is more
42:45
meant to be field testing.
42:47
So as you can see, a drill was used to sample the bone. We did not do anything
42:52
in scapples.
42:53
It was weighed up. We did approximately 50 to 60 milligrams of the bone chips
42:59
that were
42:59
formed from the drilling. And then we placed them directly into the cartridge,
43:04
no swab or anything.
43:05
Now what we did is just as a little tip, what we did is we actually, as we were
43:11
drilling into the
43:11
bone, we placed a petri dish underneath to catch all the shavings that were
43:16
falling off of the
43:18
bone right into the petri dish. And then we simply took a little scoop and we
43:23
scoop those in and
43:24
threw them into the rapid-ed in Intel cartridge before we ran it. So now here
43:30
is an example of
43:33
we had several different samples taken from the bone. So it was extracted using
43:40
the profile of
43:40
BTA kit. It was quantified with quantified with tree on its amplified with
43:44
global filer. And it
43:45
was run on the seek studio. So bone one, we had a weight of about 50.24 nan
43:51
ograms,
43:52
sorry, 50.24 milligrams. And we had about 12.7 nanograms per microliter of the
44:00
quant. And bone two,
44:02
which was about 50.97 milligrams. We also had about 12.135 nanograms per micro
44:10
liter.
44:10
Of the quant. So you can see the starting quantities was about the same for
44:14
both bones.
44:15
Bone one was actually placed in a pond and sampled using a job-aid procedure
44:21
after
44:21
days one, four, and seven. So you can see there there is a little white cover
44:27
there. And what we
44:28
did is we put the bone inside of a container. We made several holes in the
44:32
container so that the
44:34
water can freely go in and any bacteria or anything can go in there and be
44:38
exposed to the bone.
44:40
We didn't want to just drop the bone in there because we were afraid something
44:43
would run off
44:43
with it because this was a fairly large pond. And there is a do not molest all
44:47
igator sign. So we
44:49
didn't want to risk that. But what we did was each time we took two samples
44:54
from the bone,
44:54
we drilled into the hard bone. And we took two samples. One was run using
45:00
conventional methods
45:02
and one was run in the rapid hit ID. Bone two, we wanted to expose that to the
45:09
elements.
45:10
So what we did was actually place it on one of the roots of our building where
45:15
it had direct
45:16
exposure to the sun and any rain that could have happened. So once again,
45:20
sampled off today is one,
45:22
four, and seven. Similar before, we took two samples every time. One sample was
45:27
run on conventional
45:28
and one sample is one of the rapid hit ID. Just to give you some idea of the
45:33
weather conditions
45:34
that occurred at the time. So when we place it out there, I mean, in general,
45:39
we're looking at about
45:40
anywhere from the lowest, which is about 78 degrees to the highest, which is
45:45
about 90.
45:45
Obviously, the fields like is always a big difference. We went from about 83 to
45:50
95.
45:50
The humidity, sometimes we went as high as 82% humidity. The lowest was 48%
45:57
humidity.
45:58
And then we have the actual, the days we had puddles on the ground, those are
46:03
the days we
46:03
knew it rained on the actual bone that was on the roof. And so yeah, so this is
46:09
, you know,
46:10
basically the conditions that the bones were exposed to, especially the one on
46:13
the roof. I mean,
46:14
the one on the pond, it was submerged for the entire time, but the one on the
46:18
roof was exposed
46:19
to varying conditions. So let's look at bone one on the pond. So at the
46:26
beginning of the study,
46:28
when we ran in the rapid ID, we got a full DNA profile, no problem. However,
46:32
after day one,
46:33
the total alleles detected were 10. So not 10 little, so I just 10 alleles. And
46:38
it was not going
46:39
to be enough for an identification. By day four, we went out to six alleles.
46:43
And then by day seven,
46:45
no alleles were detected. So as you can see, the quantity of nanograms for mic
46:50
liter on day one,
46:52
so actually that should have been neat. The first day, day zero, we had the 12.
46:58
75 nanograms
47:00
for mic liter. But at the end of day one, that dropped to 1.7. So in the pond,
47:05
it was really,
47:06
really a very quick degradation of the sample, as you can see. And obviously by
47:11
day four, it dropped
47:12
again to 0.732 nanograms for mic liter. And by day seven, we only had 0.12 to
47:17
nanograms for
47:18
mic liter. So as you can see, based on the conventional results, we were able
47:25
to get full DNA profiles
47:26
using conventional DNA. Like I said, the prep fileer, BTA kit, quantifilotrial,
47:33
global
47:33
fileer, and the seek studio from day one all the way down to day seven, no
47:37
issue. But on the rapid
47:39
ID, there was just not enough data to make an identification, or I would say
47:43
even for comparison
47:44
purposes. Now bone two is a little different from the outside. Obviously, there
47:50
'd be any other
47:50
study, we had a full DNA profile. But after day one of testing, day four of
47:54
testing, and even
47:56
after day seven of testing, we still got full DNA profiles off of the bone that
48:01
was exposed to the
48:02
sun and the rain. And if you look at the quants from the conventional DNA
48:07
results, you can see the
48:09
amount of DNA on there was actually quite high. So the bone that was exposed to
48:13
the sun and the
48:14
rain did not have that level of degradation occurring on it. And therefore,
48:19
even after seven days,
48:20
we were able to get full DNA profiles using both conventional and rapid hit ID.
48:25
This is going to
48:25
be really important. And honestly, I think we could have pushed this for a long
48:29
period of time,
48:30
way beyond seven days. I think it'd be good to keep pushing it until we get to
48:34
a point where it's
48:35
no longer giving results to see how long we can actually get results that even
48:41
though in a Florida,
48:42
as you know, it gets really hot, very humid, and it even rains usually in some
48:46
analeana daily basis,
48:48
the bone actually did not degrade to a point at which the rapid ID would become
48:53
ineffective.
48:54
So with this, we're definitely able to make comparisons up to day seven.
48:57
So based on our recommendation, if you have something submerged in fresh water,
49:02
it may not be suitable
49:03
for rapid ID, but you can still process it using conventional DNA methods up to
49:08
seven days,
49:09
possibly even longer than seven days. Obviously, we stopped the seven day mark,
49:13
but we could have
49:14
probably pushed it to longer. Exposed to sun and rain, in least in Florida, was
49:18
suitable for both
49:19
rapid ID and conventional DNA processing up to seven days. What we'd like to do
49:26
future for these
49:27
bones is we would like to do buried in dirt, submerged in salt water, see if
49:32
that speeds up the
49:33
degradation, slows it down, exposed to extreme heat or if it gets burned, and
49:38
they just really decay
49:40
at room temperature. So for example, if skeletal remains were found in that
49:43
household, you know,
49:44
could you go ahead and sample those with a rapid ID as opposed to taking it
49:49
back to the laboratory?
49:50
So one of the other studies we did, so a lot of what we focused on at here at
49:57
the NFSCC,
49:58
was the ability to take the same swab and run it on both the rapid ID and then
50:02
take it and run
50:03
it using conventional methods. But there is one bit of a problem with that. For
50:07
example,
50:08
if you have the instrument at a crime scene and you decide to run the sample
50:12
there,
50:12
or let's take at a natural disaster or a disaster at some point and you're
50:16
running the sample there
50:17
and then you want to take it out and run it basically conventionally, then you
50:23
have to transport it
50:23
to the laboratory. Well, the only issue with that is you should take it out,
50:27
you should air dry it
50:29
before you package it. Obviously, if you do not have a proper lab set up, if
50:33
you do not have hoods,
50:34
that may not be the best idea for you to actually have it exposed to the
50:37
environment because now
50:38
you're risking contamination or actually loss of sample, something falls or
50:42
gets lost.
50:43
So what we did is we wanted to know if after you ran the sample in the rapid ID
50:50
in that sample
50:51
cartridge, could you just leave it there up to at least 24 hours and then take
50:56
it back to the
50:57
laboratory and process it using conventional DNA methods. That way we figured
51:02
24 hours was
51:02
going to be a good enough time to make sure that you could get it back to a lab
51:10
after running it.
51:11
And then at the lab, it could be air dried or whatever until they decided to
51:16
run it using
51:17
conventional methods. So that's what we did. We did an experiment where we left
51:21
the swabs in the
51:23
cartridge, sealed in the cartridge closed for 24 hours before we ran it
51:27
conventionally.
51:30
So what we did is we had four different volumes of blood that we used. We had
51:34
10 micro
51:48
set two was dried after staying in the sample cartridge for 24 hours after it
51:54
was processed
51:54
under rapid ID. So this set two was basically designed to mimic the process of
51:59
I've run a sample on
52:01
scene and now I am in 24 hours time, I'm going to get it back to the laboratory
52:07
so that they can
52:07
process it using conventional methods. And then with set three, we just took it
52:11
straight to
52:11
conventional methods just to do a kind of comparison to see the DNA that we
52:15
were actually still
52:16
getting off the swab compared to the DNA that was originally on there. So here
52:21
's an example of the
52:23
quant results and what it is for basically set one, set two and set three. So
52:28
for set one and set
52:29
two, these are the quant results after it was run on the rapid ID and set three
52:34
was conventionally
52:36
only. So as you can see that the difference between the one that was air dried
52:41
and the one that was
52:42
left in the cartridge, not much of a difference. There was not a significant
52:47
loss in DNA. I mean,
52:49
for the 10 microliters, you went from 1.05 nanograms from microliter to 0.92
52:54
nanograms from microliter.
52:56
Even at the lowest end at the one microliter of blood dried immediately, it was
53:02
0.3 nanograms
53:03
from microliter, whereas the one microliter in the cartridge was 0.15. So
53:09
slightly more.
53:10
Of course, the set three that was unconventional for the most part gave better
53:14
results. I mean,
53:15
the 10 microliters is about this a little lower, but they're all within a
53:19
margin of error. So,
53:21
as you can see, transporting it in the cartridge actually does not make that
53:25
much of a difference.
53:26
What we'd like to do for future studies on this topic is we would like to use
53:33
other body fluids,
53:34
perhaps do saliva. We would also like to do more crime scene type samples. For
53:39
example,
53:39
we've already done testing on cigarette butts gum, you know, maybe doing dried
53:44
blood instead of
53:44
liquid blood, dried saliva, and touch DNA samples. So let's go try to get more
53:49
into the
53:50
more crime scene type samples, run them on the rapid ID, take them out, leave
53:54
them in the cartridge
53:55
for at least 24 hours, and then run it conventionally. And also, we would
53:59
probably want to push
54:00
longer than 24 hours. Like, at what point are we seeing that there's such a
54:04
different result
54:05
that we're no longer getting great results? So we can actually then propose a
54:12
limit as to how long
54:13
you should go before you do not let it stay in that cartridge any longer.
54:20
So I just want to thank everybody, thank Thermo Fisher Scientific, because, you
54:27
know,
54:27
this is all through the partnership, we're able to do this with them, and, you
54:32
know, we enjoy doing
54:34
testing for them, and we're always looking for suggestions. So we're always
54:37
hoping that people
54:38
will reach out to us as the rapid DNA center of excellence and says, "I am
54:43
wondering about this
54:44
type of sample. I'm wondering about this type of sample exposed to these
54:48
conditions,
54:48
because then we can look into designing testing to answer those questions for
54:52
you."
54:52
Thanks, so I hope everybody has a good day, and I'll be free to take any
54:57
questions.
54:58
Thank you, Director Garvey and Rob, for that great information insight. Aud
55:05
ience, while we get
55:05
ready for the Q&A, which you can go ahead and submit a question for at this
55:09
time, if you have
55:10
not already, why don't we move on to a few polling questions? All right, on
55:15
your screen,
55:16
you will see the first polling question. When do you think your agency or
55:21
jurisdiction will start
55:22
using rapid DNA? This year, next year, in three to five years, in six plus
55:29
years, or never?
55:32
All right, it looks like the majority of you are going to be using it in three
55:37
to five years,
55:38
which is really exciting. All right, jump to our next one.
55:42
Which of the following is your agency considering using rapid DNA for?
55:49
Investigative leads, disaster victim ID, coded-hit confirmation,
55:56
reference sample processing, or booking station arrestee samples, or other? We
56:02
'll give you a
56:03
minute to answer that. About 50% say investigative leads, followed by 20% with
56:11
the reference sample
56:12
processing. All right, last question that we'll ask you before we get to the Q&
56:17
A.
56:17
Would you like to receive more information on today's webinar topics?
56:22
Go ahead and take a second to answer that before we get our panelists back in
56:26
here.
56:27
All right, thank you so much for your participation in that. Now, we have a few
56:35
minutes to go ahead
56:37
and do some questions. So, Director Garvey, we're going to start with you.
56:41
Good morning. Our first question, have you been able to introduce the rapid DNA
56:48
system into
56:50
court and have it accepted? So, great question because obviously that's one.
56:55
That's everyone is
56:56
very interested in how will this wind up working when it finally has to go to
57:01
court. So, we currently
57:03
have not had a case in which we've used it that has come to trial. What we see
57:09
is with many of the
57:10
cases that we work. When we are creating a lead, it will often lead to someone
57:16
taking a plea,
57:18
or it winds up not having to go to trial because we've been able to say, hey,
57:22
this person was
57:23
actually not the person. Now, with all of that said, we also run for our crime
57:31
scene samples.
57:31
We run the primary sample after the leads back in the crime lab also. So, one
57:37
of the things people
57:38
need to look at when they're thinking about court is again getting back to that
57:42
partnership
57:42
with a crime lab who is going to be actually 1-2 testify in court. Now, the
57:49
real answer that
57:50
everyone wants to know is has it been used at all in court? And there are
57:54
certain cases. There's one
57:57
in California, one in I believe Arizona, and there's a couple more coming up.
58:05
So, as more people use it,
58:06
we are going to see it used in court more often.
58:10
Oh, perfect. Thank you. That was a great comprehensive answer.
58:13
We got another one for you while we have you. So, when you ask for consent from
58:20
the suspect,
58:21
for their swab to be used in a local DNA database, do you make it clear on the
58:26
consent form that
58:27
their profile may be shared with other similar agencies outside of your police
58:32
department?
58:33
Great question again. Anyone who's going to be doing voluntary consent forms
58:38
need to make sure
58:39
your form covers actually probably two or maybe three critical topic areas. One
58:47
that it's completely voluntary. The person knows they are giving it and it's
58:51
voluntary.
58:52
Two, that you are telling them how it will be used. It obviously will be used
58:57
for the current case,
58:58
but will be used to search other sources. So, we clearly say that it will be
59:03
used to search
59:03
other sources. And then three, we also clearly tell them that at any time
59:10
voluntary consent,
59:11
they can change their mind. And if they change their mind, this is how to
59:16
contact us and we will
59:18
remove the profile. Okay, gotcha. Now, a really quick follow-up question to
59:25
that. Do you find
59:26
suspects refusing to sign the consent form a law? No, I think most of the time
59:31
people that
59:33
are basically given the choice to give a consent, most actually do. It's sort
59:41
of an odd thing
59:42
where you would go, well, why? But most people are actually doing it. So, yeah.
59:48
All right, interesting. I mean, I worked for you guys, so. All right, now Rob,
59:54
let's get you in
59:55
here. We have a few questions for you next. Rob, can you talk about the process
01:00:00
of running
01:00:01
samples? Is there any pre-processing or pretreatment required with the rapid
01:00:05
hit ID?
01:00:06
So, there really isn't much pre-processing or pretreatment. The samples for the
01:00:12
most
01:00:12
thought were treated no differently than if you were taking a swab to run using
01:00:15
conventional
01:00:16
DNA methods. So, things like swabbing soda cans or swabbing blood samples, no
01:00:22
different than using
01:00:23
a sterile swab with sterile water, swabbing it and then placing it directly
01:00:27
into the rapid ID
01:00:28
cartridge and then into the instrument. The bone was more of a field-based
01:00:34
method, which is basically
01:00:36
we drilled into the bone. We had a pet tradition underneath it to collect the
01:00:39
shivings and then
01:00:40
we put that straight into the cartridge and straight into the instrument also.
01:00:44
Any cuttings of cloth
01:00:47
with blood, we do about a five millimeter square cutting so that it can fit
01:00:52
into the cartridge
01:00:53
properly because obviously you don't want too big of a cutting because it could
01:00:57
clog up the cartridge.
01:00:58
So, we do about a five millimeter square cutting. We have worked with Thermof
01:01:02
isher to develop a
01:01:04
job aid, something that can be used to process samples. It's for the field or
01:01:12
in the lab,
01:01:13
specifically for the rapid ID. So, I know that that is something that could be
01:01:17
made available
01:01:18
in an electronic format for people if they want to see some of how we suggest
01:01:22
best methods to
01:01:23
prepare samples. Gotcha. Okay. When you were talking earlier in your
01:01:27
presentation,
01:01:28
you mentioned the samples being transported in the cartridge for 24 hours. Were
01:01:32
they kept at room
01:01:34
temperature? Yes. So, they were just kept at room temperature. We didn't
01:01:38
actually drive them
01:01:39
around for 24 hours, but they were kept at room temperature. The idea was just
01:01:44
no refrigeration.
01:01:46
We're just thinking of taking him from a scene and to the laboratory just like
01:01:50
you would do all
01:01:51
your regular evidence that you would transport from a crime scene to a
01:01:54
laboratory to process.
01:01:55
So, yeah, they were just kept at room temperature in the cartridge.
01:01:58
Perfect. Absolutely. That makes it much easier. And another one for you, Rob.
01:02:03
As we see the use of
01:02:05
next generation sequencing, increasing more and more, do you think it will be
01:02:10
more beneficial than
01:02:12
SPR profiling in these forensic cases? For what I'm not a next generation
01:02:17
sequencing expert,
01:02:18
but from what I know of it, it does take a little bit longer to process samples
01:02:23
using
01:02:24
next generation sequencing, even though you do get a lot more data. So, I guess
01:02:29
for me, I think
01:02:30
it may become more useful in the future, but I think for the majority of crimes
01:02:36
we may still be solving with SPRs and also possibly with rapid DNA as it
01:02:42
becomes more accepted into
01:02:45
the forensic community and the law enforcement community. I believe that more
01:02:49
crimes may actually
01:02:49
process B, process using SPRs with rapid DNA and maybe the more difficult, more
01:02:56
complicated crimes
01:02:58
where more information is needed, then I can see next generation sequencing
01:03:02
definitely being used
01:03:03
there. But that's just my opinion. I'm not an expert in next generation
01:03:06
sequencing.
01:03:07
All right. Thank you, Rob. Ryan, let's go ahead and get you involved in this.
01:03:12
We have a couple
01:03:13
questions for you. Ryan, how do you proficiency test those that are collecting
01:03:19
the evidence?
01:03:20
Thanks. So, the proficiency test is much like is done with normal proficiency
01:03:27
tests. They process
01:03:30
the samples, reference samples, or whatever it might be through the rapid, and
01:03:36
they do that
01:03:38
on a regular schedule. And they report the results through the normal means. So
01:03:45
it's just we really just integrate into our normal processing that they have to
01:03:49
use the rapid
01:03:50
as part of the proficiency testing schedule. Okay. Now, would a person using
01:03:57
the system need to be
01:03:58
qualified or certified in order to submit the samples? The samples are really
01:04:02
just collected
01:04:03
as they are normally. So, the same as any other samples are collected. So,
01:04:08
there's really no
01:04:08
testing of them or a qualification of them, other than initial training on how
01:04:12
to collect
01:04:13
evidence samples in terms of our detectives in the field. We go out and we
01:04:19
train our detectives
01:04:20
in the field on how to collect evidence samples, whether it be from a crime
01:04:23
scene or an item of
01:04:25
evidence that might be for touch DNA. So, other than that training, there's no
01:04:30
formal qualification.
01:04:32
Gotcha. Perfect. Thank you, Ryan. We have another question for Rob here. So, we
01:04:37
'll get you back
01:04:38
into the fold. Talking about the submerged bone data, have you run those
01:04:44
samples on the mini filer?
01:04:46
So, what was the profile like below 200B? So, we did not run a mini filer just
01:04:55
to know that using
01:04:57
traditional DNA methods. I may be, I'm not sure if it was clear in the slide.
01:05:01
We did get a full profile
01:05:03
with Global Filer using conventional DNA methods all the way up after seven
01:05:09
days. So, we never had
01:05:11
any issue with Global Filer. And I found a lot of labs have gone away from mini
01:05:18
filer because they
01:05:19
see how Global Filer, how great Global Filer works. So, we don't have mini fil
01:05:25
er. We have not
01:05:26
run it on mini filer, but Global Filer actually we got a full profile after
01:05:30
seven days being
01:05:30
submerged in the water. It was with a rapid ID is where we weren't getting
01:05:34
great data. But with
01:05:37
conventional DNA methods using the PrEPFiler BTA Express Kit and Global Filer
01:05:42
for amplification
01:05:44
and the 3500, we were able to get full DNA profile. Awesome. Thank you for that
01:05:49
information, Rob.
01:05:50
And unfortunately, audience, that's about all the time we have for the Q and A
01:05:54
today. But we would
01:05:56
like to thank our fantastic presenters, Dr. Garvey, Rob, and Ryan all for
01:06:02
joining us today,
01:06:03
as well as Thermo Fisher Scientific, the sponsor for today's webinar. In about
01:06:08
24 hours or less,
01:06:10
this webinar will be available on demand if you would like to watch it again or
01:06:14
share it with
01:06:16
friends and colleagues. Additionally, you will receive an email with
01:06:20
information on how to obtain
01:06:22
CE credit documentation for your participation today. The fourth webinar in the
01:06:28
2021 Future Trends
01:06:30
and Forensic DNA Technology will be held October 7th at 8am Pacific 11am
01:06:35
Eastern. You will be able
01:06:37
to register for that webinar on the forensic website, www.forembicmag.com. And
01:06:45
there you will
01:06:46
also be able to view other webinars in this series from the 2021 version and
01:06:51
the 2022 versions
01:06:52
on demand. Thank you so much to everybody today and we hope you have a
01:06:57
wonderful rest of your day.
01:06:59
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