Robert O'Brien & Mike Garvey 67 min

Advancing Criminal Investigations: Rapid DNA Program Considerations


Join Michael Garvey, Director of the Office of Forensic Science, and Ryan Gallagher, Criminalistics Unit Manager, both of the Philadelphia Police Department, as well as Robert O'Brien, Forensic Biology Section Leader, from the National Forensic Science Technology Center, for a candid look at new ways to combat crime. Director Garvey will describe the Philadelphia Police Department's vision of transparent policing through objective forensic science. Learn how his agency is expanding their laboratory toolbox to drive actionable intelligence that exonerates the innocent, identifies subjects, and links patterns to solve and reduce crime. Robert will share data from case-type sample testing to demonstrate the performance of Rapid and traditional DNA methods and procedures. In this webinar, you will learn more about: •Best practices for the non-CODIS use of Rapid DNA results from crime scene evidence •Laboratory considerations for implementing a Rapid DNA program •Tips and tricks for maximizing Rapid DNA results from evidence samples •Post-Rapid DNA confirmatory testing with traditional DNA testing methods



0:00

Welcome to Advancing Criminal Investigations,

0:02

Rapid DNA Program Considerations,

0:04

brought to you by Forensic and sponsored by Thermo Fisher Scientific.

0:08

This is the third webinar in the 2021 Future Trends

0:11

In forensic DNA Technology Series.

0:13

My name is Michelle Taylor, Editor-in-Chief of Forensic,

0:16

and I will be your moderator throughout.

0:18

For today's webinar, you can earn one hour of continuing education credit.

0:23

Following the conclusion of the webinar, you will receive an email with

0:27

information on how to obtain

0:29

CE Credit Documentation.

0:30

We have a great lineup scheduled to present to you today,

0:33

but before we begin, I'd like to take just a minute to cover a few logistics.

0:37

At the end of the presentations, we will hold a question and answer session.

0:43

To ask a question, click on the Ask a Question tab in the upper right corner of

0:48

the screen.

0:48

Please also take note that the right side of the screen features an overview of

0:53

today's webinar,

0:54

as well as more information about our speakers.

0:56

If you have a technical question during today's event,

0:59

click on the Test Your Connection button on the bottom of your screen.

1:03

From there, you can access additional webinar support.

1:05

We also invite you to use the social media widgets beneath the webinar

1:09

to share with your friends and colleagues.

1:11

First today, you will hear from Michael Garvey,

1:16

Director of the Office of Forensic Science with the Philadelphia Police

1:19

Department.

1:20

There, he provides oversight to all forensic operations,

1:24

including maintaining national quality standards and advancing the city's

1:27

forensic capabilities.

1:28

Director Garvey also serves as an advisor to the Philadelphia Police Department

1:33

on issues

1:33

related to Homeland Security and Intelligence.

1:36

Prior to joining the Philadelphia Police Department,

1:39

Director Garvey served the U.S. government for 15 years with the FBI and CIA.

1:43

In these positions, he worked traditional criminal casework,

1:47

counter-terrorism cases, and other intelligence operations around the globe.

1:54

Next, you will hear from Robert O'Brien, the Forensic Biology

1:58

Section Lead at the National Forensic Science Center at Florida International

2:01

University.

2:02

Robert conducts forensic biology research, including test plan design and

2:07

performs experiments

2:08

to evaluate equipment and techniques used in biological collection and DNA

2:13

analysis.

2:13

His technology evaluations have been published as reports, presentations,

2:18

and scientific posters at industry events, and reference publications.

2:23

He has developed and delivered training for new technologies, including rapid

2:26

DNA

2:27

instrumentation, and advises operators on tests and techniques available for

2:31

field use

2:32

in biological samples detection and screening.

2:34

And lastly, Director Garvey's colleague, Ryan Gallagher, the Criminalistics

2:40

Unit Manager

2:41

with the Philadelphia Police Department's Office of Forensic Science, will join

2:45

us for

2:45

the Q&A portion of the webinar. As a Criminalistics Unit Manager, Ryan is

2:50

responsible for the daily

2:51

operations of the DNA Laboratory, which processes forensic casework for the

2:55

city of Philadelphia.

2:56

Ryan began his career in forensics with the Philadelphia Police Department in

3:00

2006.

3:01

For more than 10 years, he worked in the Criminalistics Unit,

3:04

processing hundreds of forensic cases for biological fluids and ignitable

3:08

liquids.

3:09

For the past five years, Ryan has overseen the operations of the Criminalistic

3:13

Unit.

3:13

Thank you for joining us today for the third webinar in the 2021 Future Trends

3:20

in Forensic

3:20

DNA Technology Series. Mark your calendars because the series continues after

3:25

the summer,

3:26

with the next one planned for October 7th. Please be sure to check your email

3:30

for more

3:30

information on how to obtain CE Credit Documentation for your participation in

3:34

today's webinar,

3:36

and we look forward to seeing you next time. Now, without further ado, let's

3:40

get underway.

3:40

Hello, my name is Michael Garvey. I am the Director of the Office of Forensic

3:47

Science,

3:47

the Philadelphia Police Department. Today, I will be talking about expanding

3:52

the DNA toolbox, or

3:54

really how we have used technical intelligence or Friends of Science to drive

4:01

investigations,

4:02

to try to encourage the concept of transparent intelligence led police.

4:08

The primary focus of today's talk will be rapid DNA and how we have implemented

4:14

rapid DNA into our

4:16

technical intelligence program. So, everything about this new way of looking at

4:26

forensic science is focusing on the mission and it's focusing on intelligence

4:33

led investigation,

4:35

transparent policing, intelligence led policing, data driven policing. These

4:43

are all terms that

4:44

over the last year have actually become more important than probably ever

4:48

before. People want to know

4:51

that law enforcement is using the proper tools to get to the truth. And

4:58

arguably, there is no better

5:00

tool for this than properly performed forensic science. And when we focus the

5:07

mission on intelligence

5:09

led investigations, and we're also always going to be prepared for trial. Now,

5:15

it is, and it does,

5:17

require a refocusing of the efforts that we typically done in crime labs. Trad

5:24

itionally,

5:25

crime labs were resource limited. So, we had to prioritize things based quite

5:32

often on trial

5:33

data. For those investigations that are given the most priority, those that are

5:39

being asked about

5:40

the most, those that are very sensitive. And we would also often look at this

5:46

as reporting

5:47

our findings to the submitter of the evidence. The case gets submitted, the

5:54

results get reported

5:56

to that person. And of course, on top of all of this, it always had to be done

6:00

objectively,

6:01

reliably, and independently to never compromise quality. But we know that that

6:08

was

6:08

restrally scratching the surface and under the surface is the gigantic iceberg

6:14

of where we could

6:15

actually do more if given the resources or if maybe we've rethought some of our

6:20

processes so that

6:21

we could drive more investigations. So in a modified approach to this, we are

6:27

intelligence driven.

6:29

We are trying to aid investigations as early as possible to focus efforts on

6:34

exonerating

6:35

the innocent in a more timely manner, linking cases to each other more quickly,

6:40

and identifying true perpetrators of crime. When we do this, forensic science

6:47

or technical

6:48

intelligence improves the way our law enforcement agencies will actually

6:53

investigate crime,

6:55

arguably causing higher closure rates, being able to solve crime more, and

7:01

ultimately

7:02

preventing crime and increasing public safety. In order to do this, of course,

7:08

we have to leverage

7:09

resources. We have to look at new partnerships, look at new workflows, and

7:14

maybe modify workflows

7:15

that we currently have. We are probably still going to be resource limited. I

7:19

can tell you we are here.

7:22

But by changing the workflows and leveraging resources, we can do more with the

7:27

resources we have.

7:28

We also have to think about changes after the fact. Who do we submit reports to

7:34

? How do we share

7:36

information, not just to the submitter, but to other stakeholders such as

7:40

intelligence

7:41

bureaus and things like that, so that we can actually generate larger level

7:46

leads and actually

7:47

generate supplemental products, perhaps products on crime trends, or even in

7:53

some cases,

7:54

identifying potential areas where there might be a retaliatory shooting.

8:01

So these are things that forensic science can help law enforcement in general,

8:08

if we get the

8:09

information out there, and we let that information be transformed into

8:13

intelligence.

8:15

And of course, throughout this, we still must be objective, reliable, and

8:19

independent.

8:20

So let's look at how we started this. In the beginning, most of us throughout

8:27

the country,

8:28

the traditional DNA testing, we did it in accredited laboratories, in-house

8:33

labs or public partner

8:35

labs or vendor labs, and it was evidence from a single case compared to the

8:39

subjects of that case,

8:40

with a single report being issued and possibly going to court for that one case

8:46

And we knew at that time very quickly that that wasn't enough.

8:49

So we began to make local DNA databases where we pooled the profiles and where

8:55

we searched the

8:56

profiles and where we found linkages between cases and linkages to subjects,

9:02

and we were able to

9:02

produce actionable intelligence. And crime labs throughout the country did this

9:08

in the early days

9:08

of DNA testing. And that wasn't a big enough toolbox either. So we moved on to

9:14

CODIS, the combined

9:15

DNA index system, a very large toolbox in which local laboratories can search

9:21

profiles, uploads

9:22

in state systems, and search profiles across a whole state, uploads in the

9:27

national system,

9:28

managed by the FBI, and search profiles throughout the whole country. Without

9:32

question, CODIS was,

9:35

is, and will continue to be, one of the most important technical intelligence

9:40

tools our country has

9:42

for law enforcement. Now, CODIS also brings with it some requirements in order

9:48

to maintain

9:49

the quality of the CODIS profiles. All CODIS entries require that the sample

9:56

has been worked

9:57

or reviewed by CODIS laboratory. So that means if we know that primal

10:05

laboratories are always

10:06

not resource properly, then that means they're not always going to have the

10:11

capacity to work

10:12

every case that is submitted to them. So sometimes, because of the funding,

10:20

which in impacts

10:21

prioritization and prioritization, it goes hand in hand with a laboratory's

10:26

capacity,

10:27

some agencies are looking for other alternatives or have had to look for other

10:32

alternatives

10:33

outside of their CODIS laboratory for cases that may not meet the current

10:38

priority system in place.

10:40

So people have looked to expand their DNA toolbox. Now, here in the

10:47

Philadelphia area, we've

10:49

one of the things we've done is obviously we do traditional DNA testing. We do

10:55

outsourcing of

10:56

DNA samples, but we also looked at how can we leverage some other capabilities,

11:01

some other

11:01

technologies. And one of those is rapid DNA. In our rapid DNA program, we look

11:07

at reference samples.

11:09

We're able to, in the crime laboratory, have reference samples that come in,

11:16

get worked through

11:16

our rapid DNA program. That takes time and energy off of our DNA analysts that

11:23

are working forensic

11:24

evidence, and they can prioritize working evidence. It has also led to quicker

11:31

CODIS confirmation

11:33

testing for them. So when we get a CODIS hit and we need to collect another

11:37

sample to confirm that

11:40

hit, we can quickly process that CODIS confirmation on our rapid instruments.

11:45

But it also means that

11:47

we can do other reference samples as well for more investigative leads. But

11:52

outside of reference

11:54

samples, investigative leads can also be in the form of crime scene samples.

12:00

Crime scene samples

12:01

that meet our validation criteria that we've shown that certain quality and

12:07

quantity samples,

12:09

where we can preserve enough sample for traditional DNA testing, we can employ

12:14

rapid DNA on

12:16

to give us more timely investigative leads. Now, the good news there is the FBI

12:21

task force on

12:22

rapid DNA has issued guidelines for that. Our program follows those, and we'll

12:28

speak more on that

12:29

briefly. One other quick point that I want to make is there is a difference

12:34

between rapid DNA

12:36

as it's traditionally defined and modified rapid DNA. So all depending on if

12:40

you're a law enforcement

12:42

agency without a crime lab, or if you're an accredited crime lab, you may use

12:46

one or both of these

12:48

terms. Rapid DNA traditionally is the SWAV in profile out, lights out process,

12:57

where through

12:58

the rapid process, you put a SWAV in, you get a profile out and through the

13:02

expert system,

13:03

you can rely on that profile. We're talking about single source samples, high

13:07

quantity,

13:08

high quality. Modified rapid DNA is using the rapid DNA instrument, but in the

13:14

hands of a

13:15

qualified DNA analyst, that can do some more interpretations. So there's these

13:21

two approaches,

13:23

but in either approach, let's be clear, crime scene profiles generated by rapid

13:28

DNA technology

13:29

are not eligible for codes. So these profiles cannot be searched into codes. In

13:35

certain

13:36

situations, reference samples can be and will be able to be entered into codes,

13:45

especially when

13:45

we start talking about booking stations in some areas that have the proper laws

13:50

. So let's unlock

13:52

that world of rapid intelligence or rapid DNA intelligence a little bit more.

13:57

Like I just mentioned, some places where they have laws that permit DNA

14:02

collection from an

14:03

individual upon their arrest, there will be very soon, because there are

14:09

programs being set up

14:10

in conjunction with the FBI, and there are pilot programs out there right now,

14:15

where upon arrest,

14:16

samples are taken, and those samples work in a rapid DNA system, will be

14:23

eligible to be put

14:24

directly into CODIS. Outside of that type of processing, as I already said,

14:29

there's other

14:30

reference samples sort of in the same way that can be processed by those of us,

14:36

for example,

14:36

in Pennsylvania, where we do not have a resty law, but we still have people

14:42

that are being

14:43

interviewed or other contact with law enforcement where through informed

14:48

voluntary consent,

14:50

warrants, or court orders, we would obtain reference samples from these

14:54

individuals. Rapid DNA is

14:57

used to process those samples for timely information. Rapid DNA is also useful

15:04

for investigative leads

15:06

at a crime scene. So samples can be collected at a crime scene, and be brought

15:11

back to our laboratory

15:13

to be put on the rapid instrument if they meet our criteria, and there's enough

15:17

sample remaining

15:19

for traditional DNA testing, as well as subjects in that

15:24

for that crime scene that could be compared almost in real time, potentially,

15:32

excluding people that we don't want to focus the investigation on anymore, and

15:38

perhaps focusing

15:40

the investigation on other DNA profiles that have been obtained. We can also

15:46

look at disaster

15:48

victim ID. So in the case of a large, like a plane crash or a train crash,

15:57

samples could be collected

16:00

from victims, as well as family members, and the rapid DNA instrument either in

16:05

the field,

16:06

or with samples being brought back to the lab, could be used for human

16:10

identification in a very

16:12

timely manner. And in sort of the same way, we can also consider things like

16:18

human traffic.

16:19

About 25 to 30 percent of all human traffic individuals throughout the world

16:25

are children.

16:25

So, and most major cities have a human trafficking problem. So when we may need

16:34

to identify

16:35

individuals who are being human trafficked, DNA testing is one of those

16:39

possibilities. Rapid DNA,

16:42

provides a quick alternative to be able to do those identifications.

16:48

Now, when we're thinking about all those possibilities of putting into your

16:53

program,

16:54

we have to consider how do you set up the rapid DNA program. And here at the

16:59

Philadelphia Police

17:00

Department, here are some of the categories that we looked at when we were

17:04

setting up our program.

17:05

Now, there's no coincidence here that these same categories are categories that

17:10

are talked about

17:11

by the FBI's rapid DNA test force. I'm not going to go into these in great

17:16

detail,

17:17

because that would be a whole talk in and of itself. But let's just quickly

17:21

look at a few.

17:21

Let's consider administrative practices. These are going to be your overarching

17:26

practices of

17:27

how your program is going to work. The primary consideration here would be that

17:32

if you're a law

17:33

enforcement agency, or that if you're a law enforcement agency that does not

17:39

have its own prime

17:40

laboratory, you want to make sure that any rapid DNA program that you're

17:45

setting up is done in

17:47

partnership, is done in direct collaboration with your local CODIS laboratory,

17:53

because they're going

17:54

to be able to help you with all the rest of the parts of this process.

17:59

Instruments need to be

18:01

validated. Whether you're in the crime lab, we're going to be using it in the

18:04

field.

18:04

Instruments need to be validated. Protocols need to be written and followed.

18:09

And then when it comes to

18:11

staffing, whether you're in a crime lab, or whether you're a law enforcement

18:15

agency,

18:16

you're going to have to identify the staff, and you're going to have to train

18:18

them appropriately

18:20

for what they're going to be responsible for. And you're going to need to

18:23

proficiency test them

18:24

as well to make sure they are competent. You're going to have to create

18:29

collection protocols.

18:30

What type of evidence will you collect? What type of evidence will you not

18:34

collect?

18:34

How are you going to collect it to preserve sample for your primary and

18:40

traditional

18:41

STR typing back at the crime lab laboratory? How are you going to manage

18:46

comparisons and

18:48

reports? What will they say? What won't they say? And making sure that everyone

18:54

knows the difference

18:55

between a laboratory report with a formal comparison that includes stats and an

19:02

investigative or

19:03

intelligence report, which may just give the primary indication of a match or a

19:08

no match.

19:08

You have to know the difference, and it has to be clearly defined. And then you

19:15

're going to have

19:15

to have conversations about what does this mean for court? And again, this is

19:20

where collaboration

19:22

with your local crime laboratory will be extremely helpful. Now, as you move

19:27

through this process

19:28

creating this program, understand that the FBI Rapid DNA Task Force has already

19:34

put out

19:35

considerations and best practices for law enforcement use. So these are

19:40

considerations

19:40

whether you are working this in a crime lab or outside of a crime lab to help

19:45

you set up your

19:46

program for Rapid DNA today. Also, leaders in the forensic community in this

19:52

country and across

19:53

the globe have also written expectations for future developments of the

19:59

technology to push

20:01

the Rapid DNA companies to improve the technologies to the point where we hope

20:08

someday that we will

20:09

be able to analyze crime scene samples in certain, you know, meeting certain

20:16

criteria

20:16

and those profiles be eligible for COAS. We are not there yet, but that is the

20:23

future expectation

20:24

that if we can continue to improve these capabilities that our Rapid DNA

20:28

programs right now that are

20:30

used for local investigative leads may also at some point, done properly, be

20:36

able to be put into

20:36

COAS. Now, in the meantime, we don't have access to COAS for rapid DNA profiles

20:43

. So some people may

20:44

question, well, what's the point then? This is really just like our traditional

20:49

capabilities.

20:50

We have a case, we work the case, we have a subject or not, but we don't have

20:55

the ability to search

20:56

anything. Well, that's true if you don't go back to that old second thought,

21:02

which is local DNA

21:04

databases. So here in the Delaware Valley region, or here in the Philadelphia

21:10

police,

21:10

we created a non-COAS regional DNA database to compare legally collected DNA

21:17

samples,

21:18

whether they be reference or crime scene samples, that have been worked in an

21:23

accredited laboratory

21:24

or an approved Rapid DNA program. Now make no mistake about this, local DNA

21:29

databases will not

21:33

replace COAS. They can augment it though. So whereas right now we may not be

21:39

able to put certain

21:40

reliable validated profiles into COAS, these local regional databases give us

21:47

an alternative

21:48

to generate actionable intelligence to help solve and prevent crime. So locally

21:57

, the

21:58

Delaware Valley is in the southeastern region of Pennsylvania. Our system is

22:05

run and managed by

22:06

the Philadelphia Police Department Office of Forensic Science. We are a CODIS

22:10

laboratory. We

22:11

are fully accredited QAS compliant. So we manage the regional DNA database. We

22:19

partner with our

22:20

neighbors in Bucks County and Montgomery County, Pennsylvania, both of which

22:26

have extensive local

22:29

DNA programs, primarily utilizing fully accredited vendor laboratories, and

22:36

both of which do have

22:37

had access to local DNA databases for several years. The problem is these local

22:45

DNA databases

22:47

did not communicate with each other. So we knew there were investigative leads

22:52

being missed.

22:53

The good news is when we brought online Rapid DNA technology, when we brought

23:00

on Rapid Hit ID

23:01

within Philadelphia, that's also online in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, and

23:07

Montgomery County,

23:08

Pennsylvania, that the platform that gives us the capability to do rapid DNA

23:15

technology also

23:16

provided us the fundamental capability to connect our systems to actually

23:25

create a local regional

23:27

DNA database without having to start from scratch. So we use the Rapid Hit

23:35

platform as the basic

23:38

backbone of our Delaware Valley investigative DNA database. Through this system

23:46

, we have signed

23:47

MOUs. We have required validations, protocols, we have QA requirements, legal

23:54

requirements on

23:55

what can be collected, what can be put in. We have IT requirements for safety

24:00

and security,

24:01

and we also have protocols and requirements on how we will actually put out

24:07

investigative leads.

24:09

So a couple of quick examples. Now, what you're clearly going to see here in

24:14

these two examples

24:16

that I will provide is they're not arguably rapid, but I wanted to show them

24:21

because it's a good

24:22

contrast of where we were and where we are now. So we have, when we went online

24:30

with our regional

24:32

system in January of 2021, we immediately obtained several DNA kits. So let's

24:40

look at this one very

24:41

quickly. We have a sexual assault kit processed by the Philadelphia police back

24:46

in 2017. No leads,

24:50

no hits, no codis hits. Now, Lux County, Pennsylvania, in September of 2019,

24:58

they processed a reference

25:01

sample via Rapid DNA. However, we did not have a connected system yet. So even

25:08

though 695 days went

25:11

past and there would have been a hit, there is no Delaware Valley system. So

25:17

there is no hit.

25:17

481 days after that, when we go online, we get the hit. In our current system,

25:26

when Lux County processes a reference sample and puts it into their Rapid Hit

25:34

system,

25:35

and it meets all the QAQC checks, it would move over to the DNA system for the

25:42

region,

25:42

and we would have obtained that hit immediately. So you can see going forward,

25:47

this is going to be a much more powerful timely tool. Case number two, if you

25:53

look at it like this,

25:55

one day difference between a crime scene sample being worked in a profile

26:02

obtained in a Bucks

26:03

County vehicle theft and a sexual assault case in Philadelphia, one day. But we

26:13

did not know

26:14

those two cases were linked together at all. 2028 days later, when the David

26:21

went live,

26:22

we got that hit. Well, I think the hit would have been much more timely, would

26:28

have been much

26:28

more actionable intelligence if it would have been produced in July of 2015. We

26:34

now know

26:35

going forward, these type of hits will be obtained immediately because of the

26:41

partnership,

26:42

because of the profile of sharing, but also because of our rapid DNA

26:46

capabilities and

26:47

the connectivity that using the same instruments provides us. So as we continue

26:56

from here,

26:57

what is the PPV OFS looking at as we continue figuring out how do we actually

27:03

do technical

27:04

intelligence, dry investigations forward? Clearly, we're going to continue

27:09

traditional DNA laboratory

27:11

work that's not going anywhere. We will continue full access to CODIS, the

27:15

eldest, the estus, and

27:16

the end of searching profiles throughout the whole country. We will continue to

27:20

work with the FBI

27:22

on our partnership of hopefully as we further develop our rapid DNA program and

27:28

other people

27:29

with developed their rapid DNA programs, working to the point of someday in

27:33

maybe several years,

27:35

maybe sooner, getting rapid DNA profiles into CODIS. Again, CODIS isn't going

27:40

anywhere and it is

27:42

one of the most powerful technical intelligence tools U.S. law enforcement has.

27:47

We will locally

27:49

still grow and use our rapid DNA database system linking it to other regional

27:55

non-CODIS

27:56

DNA databases to find those missing hits. We also utilize other enhanced DNA

28:03

techniques,

28:04

whether that be genetic genealogy, genetic phenotyping, and we will continue to

28:08

expand

28:09

the testing that we will consider, whether that's through traditional DNA or

28:13

through rapid DNA testing.

28:15

Expanding testing, what I mean is not new technologies but new items that we

28:21

may work.

28:22

What other types of items should we be working that will aid us in solving

28:28

crimes, identifying

28:31

crime patterns? So if we look at crime gun violence right now, it is surging.

28:37

So when we

28:37

consider what type of evidence should we be working? Should we be working more

28:43

of the swabs from firearms?

28:46

Should we be working things like fired cartridge casings? What is the next

28:52

stage in forensic

28:53

technical intelligence? DNA is going to be a part of it no matter what. So as

28:59

you ask your question,

29:01

what size DNA toolbox is right for you, it's basically going to be based on

29:05

your resources

29:06

and managing your resources effectively, efficiently, and economically to

29:12

leverage those resources in

29:14

the best way you can through traditional DNA capabilities and rapid DNA

29:20

capabilities to

29:21

accomplish the mission, which is generate actionable intelligence, exonerate

29:26

the innocent, link cases

29:28

to each other, identify true perpetrators of crime, and increase public safety.

29:33

So with that,

29:36

I thank you and I thank our partners throughout the Delaware Valley region.

29:41

Your next presentation

29:42

will be more technical on some of the, you know, do's and don'ts for rapid DNA

29:49

technology.

29:50

And once that is concluded, we will have questions and answers.

29:53

My name is Robert O'Brien. I am the forensic biology section lead at the

29:59

National Forensic

30:00

Science Technology Center at Florida International University. NFSDC is also a

30:07

partner with Thermo

30:08

Fisher Scientific. We are the rapid DNA Center of Excellence. So today I'm

30:13

going to be talking

30:13

about some of the sample testing that we've been doing since we've become the

30:17

Center of Excellence

30:18

and some of our most recent work. So for an overview, what we're going to deal

30:23

with is I'm going to

30:24

look back on stuff we've done on reference samples, some low-level samples,

30:29

some mock crime team

30:30

samples, on most recently bone samples, and then some other testing we've done

30:35

when it comes to

30:35

the transporting of run samples back to the laboratory for rerunning.

30:39

So just a quick overview, the rapid ID system is a single instrument,

30:44

processes reference samples in about 90 minutes. It presents other samples like

30:50

blood and saliva

30:51

samples in about 95 minutes. It has two different sample cartridges. You've got

30:57

the ACE cartridge,

30:58

which has a purple label, and that's what you use for your reference samples.

31:01

And then you have

31:02

the rapid Intel cartridge, which is a pink label, and that's what you're going

31:06

to use for your blood

31:07

and other lower-level type samples. The sample cartridges are good for about

31:12

eight months,

31:13

refrigerated, or two months at room temperature, and they both use the Global

31:17

Father Express chemistry.

31:18

So just another overview, I did discuss this on an earlier webinar. The ACE

31:23

sample cartridge is

31:24

intended for use with reference samples like buckleswaps. It can also be used

31:29

for other high-level samples.

31:30

For example, blood, if you have a lot of blood, it can actually work with the

31:34

ACE cartridge,

31:35

and the runtime is about 90 minutes. The rapid Intel sample cartridge, that's

31:40

intended for

31:40

use with single-source samples, but also crime-scene type samples. So if you

31:44

have lower levels of blood,

31:46

if you have saliva, you know, if you drive saliva, dry blood, for example, all

31:49

these will work.

31:50

It does have an improved performance for low-level samples, and it's used for

31:55

blood,

31:55

drinking containers, cigarette butts, and other similar samples. And that

31:59

runtime is 95 minutes.

32:00

This is just an example of some of the data we generated when we did 20 buckles

32:06

wabs.

32:06

So this had a 100% first pass success rate with the ACE cartridge. That

32:11

basically means,

32:12

as you can see on the left-hand side, we have a green check mark, and all of

32:16

these were run

32:17

one time, and every time they gave us a full profile. In order for you to get a

32:21

green check

32:21

mark in this system, it means you literally have a perfect profile. There's no

32:25

imbalances,

32:27

there is no dropout or anything like that. So that's what a green check mark

32:30

means. So all of

32:31

these samples, different buckleswabs, will run, and we got first pass success

32:35

rate of 100%.

32:36

Some of the lower-level sample testing we did, we did do a range of input from

32:44

1,280 nanograms

32:45

to 10 nanograms. This is the total DNA input. So not nanograms for microliter,

32:50

this is actually

32:51

total nanograms. And about the 20 nanogram markers where we started to see some

32:57

dropping off

32:58

in the number of loci that were recovered. So as you can see at the 20 nanogram

33:03

level,

33:03

out of the triple kit set we did, we did have one at 20, out of 21, another one

33:07

at 18,

33:08

out of 21, and a 10 nanograms, actually we only had one sample that had dropout

33:14

, which was 17

33:14

out of 21 loci we did get. So even though there was dropout at these levels, it

33:19

is important to

33:20

know that still more than enough data to make an identification. So you can

33:24

easily use this

33:25

for comparison purposes with lower-level type samples. Here is just a graph

33:31

representing what we did

33:32

with saliva samples on the different volumes. So this was not based on nan

33:35

ograms, this is actually

33:36

based on volume of DNA. And obviously at 8 microliters of saliva, we got 100%

33:42

of the alleles recovered,

33:44

and at one microliter of saliva, we actually got 85% of alleles recovered. Once

33:50

again,

33:50

plenty of data, good enough to make a comparison. For blood samples, we went

33:56

down to a little lower,

33:57

so we went down to half a microliter, and we started at a lower, so we started

34:00

at four microliters.

34:02

And there we went from a 99% recovery to 98%, and the lowest was 96%. So once

34:09

again,

34:09

96% of our alleles were recovered, and therefore we would definitely be able to

34:14

use that for comparison

34:15

purposes. Now, we also did here at the NFSCC, we did a lot of sample retesting.

34:23

So the idea behind

34:24

this is if you run a swab on the rapid ID, and for some reason you had to take

34:29

that same swab

34:30

back to the laboratory, and we run it using conventional DNA methods, was there

34:35

enough DNA left on that

34:36

swab to do that. So here we have, this is an example of the quantities. Now,

34:40

these quantities

34:41

are on the swab after it was removed from the rapid ID, and then run using

34:47

conventional DNA

34:48

methods, and quantified using quantifiler trio, the extraction process was the

34:52

prep filer express

34:54

on the automated robot. So as you can see from a buckle swab, even after

34:58

running it on the rapid

34:59

ID, we had a lot of DNA left over, got full profiles every time. We did

35:04

different varying numbers of

35:06

swipes on the cheek, because different agencies may have different requirements

35:11

as how many times

35:12

to swipe. So we did anywhere from one swipe to six swipes, no difference. We

35:16

got full DNA profiles

35:18

every time, and then we did some blood samples, all the way from 75 microliters

35:22

of blood, all the way

35:23

down to 20 microliters of blood, once again, we were able to get full profiles.

35:28

And as you all know,

35:29

typically for quantitate for amplification, you need at least one nanogram of

35:34

DNA. So when you look

35:35

at the nanograms of DNA, total nanograms of DNA left on that swab, after it was

35:39

run with rapid ID,

35:41

you can see that we could have actually generated a lot more of this profile

35:45

several times. So the

35:46

swab was able, could have been tested a lot more than we did.

35:51

Here's just a few examples of some of the data that we got off of. These were

35:57

more mock crime

35:58

scene type samples. So here we have a cigarette butt, this was actually left

36:02

outside. So what we did

36:04

is we had somebody smoke the cigarette butt, and then we had them drop it into

36:07

a container,

36:08

it was left outside for approximately a 24-hour period before it was collected.

36:12

Now it was exposed

36:14

to the heat of the day being in Florida and the humidity. It was not exposed to

36:18

being rained on,

36:20

because it was in a covered area, but it was left, it was outside. And here you

36:25

can see that we do

36:26

have some alleles in yellow, but for the most part, this is definitely giving

36:30

us enough data to make

36:31

comparison purposes. And of course, we were actually able to compare it to the

36:35

individual who smoked,

36:37

and definitely matched him at all the allele calls that we got. So this was

36:44

definitely a success.

36:47

This was from a cell phone, someone's cell phone. So this is where we're going

36:51

into more of a

36:51

category of touch DNA, and the results are not as high as what we saw with the

36:56

cigarette butt,

36:57

because the cigarette butt actually had saliva entailed into it. This is more

37:01

touch, sweat,

37:02

but even from this cigarette, the cell phone, we can tell it's definitely a

37:06

male profile.

37:07

We do have at least one, two, three, four, five, six, seven areas where we have

37:15

heterozygotes.

37:17

So we know that at least all the data is present at those seven areas. And if

37:21

you wanted to use

37:22

this, for example, an investigative lead purpose, you can definitely use this

37:26

to match it against

37:27

a suspect standard to give you an indication that person was present, to

37:31

possibly warrant for the

37:32

investigation or to exclude them from the crime. This was off of a side of a

37:38

gun. So this was the

37:40

side of the gun that we knew the person was handling it, and this was the side

37:43

of the gun that touched

37:44

their palm most. So once again, we swabbed the side of the gun and we ran it.

37:50

We can tell it's

37:50

a male profile, and we actually have a lot of the data which then match the

37:55

person who we ran

37:57

their reference sample. So once again, as an investigative lead, this is going

38:00

to give you a

38:01

lot of useful information to either exclude or warrant further investigation

38:05

into an individual.

38:06

We did do a plucked single here. So the route was in very good shape. We pl

38:13

ucked it. We were able

38:14

to see the epithelial sheet while we were testing it. The hair was simply

38:18

placed into the cartridge,

38:19

and then we put the stick of a swab to hold it down and to hold it in place.

38:24

Because if you don't,

38:25

the hair will actually float up with the region. So you don't want that to

38:28

happen. You want the

38:28

sample to get submerged when it's in the intel cartridge. And as you can see,

38:33

we got a beautiful

38:34

full profile here. We did the color of a t-shirt. So somebody wore their t-

38:40

shirt, they worked out,

38:41

and then they lent it to us to swab to first to swab. We did swab the color of

38:48

it. There are

38:49

two areas where there were possible locations of a mixture. We were not able to

38:55

determine who that

38:56

was. It did not come from anybody who swabbed the t-shirt, and obviously did

38:59

not come from the

39:00

wearer. So we weren't absolutely too sure about that. But for the most part, we

39:04

got very usable

39:05

data here, and once again, more than enough for comparison purposes. And then a

39:10

soda can. The soda

39:12

cans were really good. We did several soda cans, and they for the most part

39:15

gave us full DNA

39:16

profiles because you've got the transfer saliva, and as you know, saliva has

39:20

very high content of

39:21

DNA. So that was one of the really good things with soda cans. And this is just

39:25

a typical example

39:26

of the DNA profile we got off of a soda can. So this is a very good for

39:31

obviously comparison purposes.

39:33

I mean, this is CODIS quality data here. We did do some tests also with face

39:39

masks.

39:39

And basically what we did for the face mask is that they were worn for

39:43

different periods of time,

39:45

16 hours, 8 hours, 4 hours, and 2 hours. The mask was then swabbed and run in

39:50

the rapid ID.

39:51

The swab was removed after running in the rapid ID and then run using

39:54

conventional methods.

39:56

And we got full profiles on both the rapid ID and using conventional methods.

40:01

So obviously in the

40:01

height of COVID, everybody was wearing a face mask and a lot of times they

40:05

would be discarded.

40:06

So we were able to show that you could definitely get DNA off the face mask if

40:10

anybody's running

40:11

using it for anywhere from 2 to 16 hours. Even though things have probably

40:17

calmed down with the

40:17

mask a little bit now at the time of this recording, in the future this can

40:21

happen again, or it just

40:22

goes to show you that masks in general, something that somebody may use to

40:26

cover the nose on the

40:27

mouth will be good for rapid DNA testing. The latest thing we've worked on is

40:34

some bone samples.

40:35

So we actually procured a bone, a frozen femur, and we cut it into one in

40:39

segments with a band saw

40:41

just so that we would have different segments to test under different

40:43

conditions. One thing

40:45

that was done is that after we cut it with the band saw, I actually took a swab

40:49

and just simply

40:50

swabbed the bone dust that was on the band saw that was left behind. And the sw

40:56

ab of the bone

40:56

dust from the freezing femur was done at femur was run on the Intel cartridge.

41:01

So we ran it the

41:01

first time we got a full profile. So I took the same swab out, placed into

41:05

another cartridge,

41:06

ran it again, full profile took it out, ran it again, full profile ran again,

41:11

and still a full

41:12

profile. So after three times, after four times total, we got a full DNA

41:16

profile every time from

41:18

this bone dust that was run on the rapid hit ID and the Intel cartridge. This

41:23

is an example,

41:24

I'm sorry, this is an example of the DNA profile after the fourth run. So as

41:29

you can see from the

41:30

peak heights, we're still seeing peak heights in the 7000 range. We have heter

41:35

ozygotes at 6000,

41:37

that I really think that I could have run this sample again and again. Now

41:41

there is a six showing

41:42

up in the DYS 391, which I believe could possibly pull up because this actually

41:47

was a female bone.

41:48

And as you can see, there's no amelogennan. So there is part, I know why the am

41:52

elogennan. So it

41:53

is possible that that is pull up into possibly the 11 that is in the T-POCs.

41:58

But once again,

42:00

full DNA profile, thinking about using this rapid ID on bones for

42:05

identification purposes,

42:07

definitely on fresher bones, frozen bones, it works great. Now we did another

42:12

bone study. So here's

42:14

an example of where some of the segments that we cut from the bone. So we have

42:17

two bones, bone one

42:18

and bone two. Bone one was a little bit longer but not as wide, not as wide of

42:24

a diameter. So that

42:25

was about nearly five centimeters, so just under two inches. Bone two is about

42:30

three centimeters and

42:31

just about one inch. So both bones were sampled using the protocol from the job

42:37

aid. So with our

42:40

help, we helped Thermophisher Scientific develop a job aid. And this is more

42:45

meant to be field testing.

42:47

So as you can see, a drill was used to sample the bone. We did not do anything

42:52

in scapples.

42:53

It was weighed up. We did approximately 50 to 60 milligrams of the bone chips

42:59

that were

42:59

formed from the drilling. And then we placed them directly into the cartridge,

43:04

no swab or anything.

43:05

Now what we did is just as a little tip, what we did is we actually, as we were

43:11

drilling into the

43:11

bone, we placed a petri dish underneath to catch all the shavings that were

43:16

falling off of the

43:18

bone right into the petri dish. And then we simply took a little scoop and we

43:23

scoop those in and

43:24

threw them into the rapid-ed in Intel cartridge before we ran it. So now here

43:30

is an example of

43:33

we had several different samples taken from the bone. So it was extracted using

43:40

the profile of

43:40

BTA kit. It was quantified with quantified with tree on its amplified with

43:44

global filer. And it

43:45

was run on the seek studio. So bone one, we had a weight of about 50.24 nan

43:51

ograms,

43:52

sorry, 50.24 milligrams. And we had about 12.7 nanograms per microliter of the

44:00

quant. And bone two,

44:02

which was about 50.97 milligrams. We also had about 12.135 nanograms per micro

44:10

liter.

44:10

Of the quant. So you can see the starting quantities was about the same for

44:14

both bones.

44:15

Bone one was actually placed in a pond and sampled using a job-aid procedure

44:21

after

44:21

days one, four, and seven. So you can see there there is a little white cover

44:27

there. And what we

44:28

did is we put the bone inside of a container. We made several holes in the

44:32

container so that the

44:34

water can freely go in and any bacteria or anything can go in there and be

44:38

exposed to the bone.

44:40

We didn't want to just drop the bone in there because we were afraid something

44:43

would run off

44:43

with it because this was a fairly large pond. And there is a do not molest all

44:47

igator sign. So we

44:49

didn't want to risk that. But what we did was each time we took two samples

44:54

from the bone,

44:54

we drilled into the hard bone. And we took two samples. One was run using

45:00

conventional methods

45:02

and one was run in the rapid hit ID. Bone two, we wanted to expose that to the

45:09

elements.

45:10

So what we did was actually place it on one of the roots of our building where

45:15

it had direct

45:16

exposure to the sun and any rain that could have happened. So once again,

45:20

sampled off today is one,

45:22

four, and seven. Similar before, we took two samples every time. One sample was

45:27

run on conventional

45:28

and one sample is one of the rapid hit ID. Just to give you some idea of the

45:33

weather conditions

45:34

that occurred at the time. So when we place it out there, I mean, in general,

45:39

we're looking at about

45:40

anywhere from the lowest, which is about 78 degrees to the highest, which is

45:45

about 90.

45:45

Obviously, the fields like is always a big difference. We went from about 83 to

45:50

95.

45:50

The humidity, sometimes we went as high as 82% humidity. The lowest was 48%

45:57

humidity.

45:58

And then we have the actual, the days we had puddles on the ground, those are

46:03

the days we

46:03

knew it rained on the actual bone that was on the roof. And so yeah, so this is

46:09

, you know,

46:10

basically the conditions that the bones were exposed to, especially the one on

46:13

the roof. I mean,

46:14

the one on the pond, it was submerged for the entire time, but the one on the

46:18

roof was exposed

46:19

to varying conditions. So let's look at bone one on the pond. So at the

46:26

beginning of the study,

46:28

when we ran in the rapid ID, we got a full DNA profile, no problem. However,

46:32

after day one,

46:33

the total alleles detected were 10. So not 10 little, so I just 10 alleles. And

46:38

it was not going

46:39

to be enough for an identification. By day four, we went out to six alleles.

46:43

And then by day seven,

46:45

no alleles were detected. So as you can see, the quantity of nanograms for mic

46:50

liter on day one,

46:52

so actually that should have been neat. The first day, day zero, we had the 12.

46:58

75 nanograms

47:00

for mic liter. But at the end of day one, that dropped to 1.7. So in the pond,

47:05

it was really,

47:06

really a very quick degradation of the sample, as you can see. And obviously by

47:11

day four, it dropped

47:12

again to 0.732 nanograms for mic liter. And by day seven, we only had 0.12 to

47:17

nanograms for

47:18

mic liter. So as you can see, based on the conventional results, we were able

47:25

to get full DNA profiles

47:26

using conventional DNA. Like I said, the prep fileer, BTA kit, quantifilotrial,

47:33

global

47:33

fileer, and the seek studio from day one all the way down to day seven, no

47:37

issue. But on the rapid

47:39

ID, there was just not enough data to make an identification, or I would say

47:43

even for comparison

47:44

purposes. Now bone two is a little different from the outside. Obviously, there

47:50

'd be any other

47:50

study, we had a full DNA profile. But after day one of testing, day four of

47:54

testing, and even

47:56

after day seven of testing, we still got full DNA profiles off of the bone that

48:01

was exposed to the

48:02

sun and the rain. And if you look at the quants from the conventional DNA

48:07

results, you can see the

48:09

amount of DNA on there was actually quite high. So the bone that was exposed to

48:13

the sun and the

48:14

rain did not have that level of degradation occurring on it. And therefore,

48:19

even after seven days,

48:20

we were able to get full DNA profiles using both conventional and rapid hit ID.

48:25

This is going to

48:25

be really important. And honestly, I think we could have pushed this for a long

48:29

period of time,

48:30

way beyond seven days. I think it'd be good to keep pushing it until we get to

48:34

a point where it's

48:35

no longer giving results to see how long we can actually get results that even

48:41

though in a Florida,

48:42

as you know, it gets really hot, very humid, and it even rains usually in some

48:46

analeana daily basis,

48:48

the bone actually did not degrade to a point at which the rapid ID would become

48:53

ineffective.

48:54

So with this, we're definitely able to make comparisons up to day seven.

48:57

So based on our recommendation, if you have something submerged in fresh water,

49:02

it may not be suitable

49:03

for rapid ID, but you can still process it using conventional DNA methods up to

49:08

seven days,

49:09

possibly even longer than seven days. Obviously, we stopped the seven day mark,

49:13

but we could have

49:14

probably pushed it to longer. Exposed to sun and rain, in least in Florida, was

49:18

suitable for both

49:19

rapid ID and conventional DNA processing up to seven days. What we'd like to do

49:26

future for these

49:27

bones is we would like to do buried in dirt, submerged in salt water, see if

49:32

that speeds up the

49:33

degradation, slows it down, exposed to extreme heat or if it gets burned, and

49:38

they just really decay

49:40

at room temperature. So for example, if skeletal remains were found in that

49:43

household, you know,

49:44

could you go ahead and sample those with a rapid ID as opposed to taking it

49:49

back to the laboratory?

49:50

So one of the other studies we did, so a lot of what we focused on at here at

49:57

the NFSCC,

49:58

was the ability to take the same swab and run it on both the rapid ID and then

50:02

take it and run

50:03

it using conventional methods. But there is one bit of a problem with that. For

50:07

example,

50:08

if you have the instrument at a crime scene and you decide to run the sample

50:12

there,

50:12

or let's take at a natural disaster or a disaster at some point and you're

50:16

running the sample there

50:17

and then you want to take it out and run it basically conventionally, then you

50:23

have to transport it

50:23

to the laboratory. Well, the only issue with that is you should take it out,

50:27

you should air dry it

50:29

before you package it. Obviously, if you do not have a proper lab set up, if

50:33

you do not have hoods,

50:34

that may not be the best idea for you to actually have it exposed to the

50:37

environment because now

50:38

you're risking contamination or actually loss of sample, something falls or

50:42

gets lost.

50:43

So what we did is we wanted to know if after you ran the sample in the rapid ID

50:50

in that sample

50:51

cartridge, could you just leave it there up to at least 24 hours and then take

50:56

it back to the

50:57

laboratory and process it using conventional DNA methods. That way we figured

51:02

24 hours was

51:02

going to be a good enough time to make sure that you could get it back to a lab

51:10

after running it.

51:11

And then at the lab, it could be air dried or whatever until they decided to

51:16

run it using

51:17

conventional methods. So that's what we did. We did an experiment where we left

51:21

the swabs in the

51:23

cartridge, sealed in the cartridge closed for 24 hours before we ran it

51:27

conventionally.

51:30

So what we did is we had four different volumes of blood that we used. We had

51:34

10 micro

51:48

set two was dried after staying in the sample cartridge for 24 hours after it

51:54

was processed

51:54

under rapid ID. So this set two was basically designed to mimic the process of

51:59

I've run a sample on

52:01

scene and now I am in 24 hours time, I'm going to get it back to the laboratory

52:07

so that they can

52:07

process it using conventional methods. And then with set three, we just took it

52:11

straight to

52:11

conventional methods just to do a kind of comparison to see the DNA that we

52:15

were actually still

52:16

getting off the swab compared to the DNA that was originally on there. So here

52:21

's an example of the

52:23

quant results and what it is for basically set one, set two and set three. So

52:28

for set one and set

52:29

two, these are the quant results after it was run on the rapid ID and set three

52:34

was conventionally

52:36

only. So as you can see that the difference between the one that was air dried

52:41

and the one that was

52:42

left in the cartridge, not much of a difference. There was not a significant

52:47

loss in DNA. I mean,

52:49

for the 10 microliters, you went from 1.05 nanograms from microliter to 0.92

52:54

nanograms from microliter.

52:56

Even at the lowest end at the one microliter of blood dried immediately, it was

53:02

0.3 nanograms

53:03

from microliter, whereas the one microliter in the cartridge was 0.15. So

53:09

slightly more.

53:10

Of course, the set three that was unconventional for the most part gave better

53:14

results. I mean,

53:15

the 10 microliters is about this a little lower, but they're all within a

53:19

margin of error. So,

53:21

as you can see, transporting it in the cartridge actually does not make that

53:25

much of a difference.

53:26

What we'd like to do for future studies on this topic is we would like to use

53:33

other body fluids,

53:34

perhaps do saliva. We would also like to do more crime scene type samples. For

53:39

example,

53:39

we've already done testing on cigarette butts gum, you know, maybe doing dried

53:44

blood instead of

53:44

liquid blood, dried saliva, and touch DNA samples. So let's go try to get more

53:49

into the

53:50

more crime scene type samples, run them on the rapid ID, take them out, leave

53:54

them in the cartridge

53:55

for at least 24 hours, and then run it conventionally. And also, we would

53:59

probably want to push

54:00

longer than 24 hours. Like, at what point are we seeing that there's such a

54:04

different result

54:05

that we're no longer getting great results? So we can actually then propose a

54:12

limit as to how long

54:13

you should go before you do not let it stay in that cartridge any longer.

54:20

So I just want to thank everybody, thank Thermo Fisher Scientific, because, you

54:27

know,

54:27

this is all through the partnership, we're able to do this with them, and, you

54:32

know, we enjoy doing

54:34

testing for them, and we're always looking for suggestions. So we're always

54:37

hoping that people

54:38

will reach out to us as the rapid DNA center of excellence and says, "I am

54:43

wondering about this

54:44

type of sample. I'm wondering about this type of sample exposed to these

54:48

conditions,

54:48

because then we can look into designing testing to answer those questions for

54:52

you."

54:52

Thanks, so I hope everybody has a good day, and I'll be free to take any

54:57

questions.

54:58

Thank you, Director Garvey and Rob, for that great information insight. Aud

55:05

ience, while we get

55:05

ready for the Q&A, which you can go ahead and submit a question for at this

55:09

time, if you have

55:10

not already, why don't we move on to a few polling questions? All right, on

55:15

your screen,

55:16

you will see the first polling question. When do you think your agency or

55:21

jurisdiction will start

55:22

using rapid DNA? This year, next year, in three to five years, in six plus

55:29

years, or never?

55:32

All right, it looks like the majority of you are going to be using it in three

55:37

to five years,

55:38

which is really exciting. All right, jump to our next one.

55:42

Which of the following is your agency considering using rapid DNA for?

55:49

Investigative leads, disaster victim ID, coded-hit confirmation,

55:56

reference sample processing, or booking station arrestee samples, or other? We

56:02

'll give you a

56:03

minute to answer that. About 50% say investigative leads, followed by 20% with

56:11

the reference sample

56:12

processing. All right, last question that we'll ask you before we get to the Q&

56:17

A.

56:17

Would you like to receive more information on today's webinar topics?

56:22

Go ahead and take a second to answer that before we get our panelists back in

56:26

here.

56:27

All right, thank you so much for your participation in that. Now, we have a few

56:35

minutes to go ahead

56:37

and do some questions. So, Director Garvey, we're going to start with you.

56:41

Good morning. Our first question, have you been able to introduce the rapid DNA

56:48

system into

56:50

court and have it accepted? So, great question because obviously that's one.

56:55

That's everyone is

56:56

very interested in how will this wind up working when it finally has to go to

57:01

court. So, we currently

57:03

have not had a case in which we've used it that has come to trial. What we see

57:09

is with many of the

57:10

cases that we work. When we are creating a lead, it will often lead to someone

57:16

taking a plea,

57:18

or it winds up not having to go to trial because we've been able to say, hey,

57:22

this person was

57:23

actually not the person. Now, with all of that said, we also run for our crime

57:31

scene samples.

57:31

We run the primary sample after the leads back in the crime lab also. So, one

57:37

of the things people

57:38

need to look at when they're thinking about court is again getting back to that

57:42

partnership

57:42

with a crime lab who is going to be actually 1-2 testify in court. Now, the

57:49

real answer that

57:50

everyone wants to know is has it been used at all in court? And there are

57:54

certain cases. There's one

57:57

in California, one in I believe Arizona, and there's a couple more coming up.

58:05

So, as more people use it,

58:06

we are going to see it used in court more often.

58:10

Oh, perfect. Thank you. That was a great comprehensive answer.

58:13

We got another one for you while we have you. So, when you ask for consent from

58:20

the suspect,

58:21

for their swab to be used in a local DNA database, do you make it clear on the

58:26

consent form that

58:27

their profile may be shared with other similar agencies outside of your police

58:32

department?

58:33

Great question again. Anyone who's going to be doing voluntary consent forms

58:38

need to make sure

58:39

your form covers actually probably two or maybe three critical topic areas. One

58:47

that it's completely voluntary. The person knows they are giving it and it's

58:51

voluntary.

58:52

Two, that you are telling them how it will be used. It obviously will be used

58:57

for the current case,

58:58

but will be used to search other sources. So, we clearly say that it will be

59:03

used to search

59:03

other sources. And then three, we also clearly tell them that at any time

59:10

voluntary consent,

59:11

they can change their mind. And if they change their mind, this is how to

59:16

contact us and we will

59:18

remove the profile. Okay, gotcha. Now, a really quick follow-up question to

59:25

that. Do you find

59:26

suspects refusing to sign the consent form a law? No, I think most of the time

59:31

people that

59:33

are basically given the choice to give a consent, most actually do. It's sort

59:41

of an odd thing

59:42

where you would go, well, why? But most people are actually doing it. So, yeah.

59:48

All right, interesting. I mean, I worked for you guys, so. All right, now Rob,

59:54

let's get you in

59:55

here. We have a few questions for you next. Rob, can you talk about the process

01:00:00

of running

01:00:01

samples? Is there any pre-processing or pretreatment required with the rapid

01:00:05

hit ID?

01:00:06

So, there really isn't much pre-processing or pretreatment. The samples for the

01:00:12

most

01:00:12

thought were treated no differently than if you were taking a swab to run using

01:00:15

conventional

01:00:16

DNA methods. So, things like swabbing soda cans or swabbing blood samples, no

01:00:22

different than using

01:00:23

a sterile swab with sterile water, swabbing it and then placing it directly

01:00:27

into the rapid ID

01:00:28

cartridge and then into the instrument. The bone was more of a field-based

01:00:34

method, which is basically

01:00:36

we drilled into the bone. We had a pet tradition underneath it to collect the

01:00:39

shivings and then

01:00:40

we put that straight into the cartridge and straight into the instrument also.

01:00:44

Any cuttings of cloth

01:00:47

with blood, we do about a five millimeter square cutting so that it can fit

01:00:52

into the cartridge

01:00:53

properly because obviously you don't want too big of a cutting because it could

01:00:57

clog up the cartridge.

01:00:58

So, we do about a five millimeter square cutting. We have worked with Thermof

01:01:02

isher to develop a

01:01:04

job aid, something that can be used to process samples. It's for the field or

01:01:12

in the lab,

01:01:13

specifically for the rapid ID. So, I know that that is something that could be

01:01:17

made available

01:01:18

in an electronic format for people if they want to see some of how we suggest

01:01:22

best methods to

01:01:23

prepare samples. Gotcha. Okay. When you were talking earlier in your

01:01:27

presentation,

01:01:28

you mentioned the samples being transported in the cartridge for 24 hours. Were

01:01:32

they kept at room

01:01:34

temperature? Yes. So, they were just kept at room temperature. We didn't

01:01:38

actually drive them

01:01:39

around for 24 hours, but they were kept at room temperature. The idea was just

01:01:44

no refrigeration.

01:01:46

We're just thinking of taking him from a scene and to the laboratory just like

01:01:50

you would do all

01:01:51

your regular evidence that you would transport from a crime scene to a

01:01:54

laboratory to process.

01:01:55

So, yeah, they were just kept at room temperature in the cartridge.

01:01:58

Perfect. Absolutely. That makes it much easier. And another one for you, Rob.

01:02:03

As we see the use of

01:02:05

next generation sequencing, increasing more and more, do you think it will be

01:02:10

more beneficial than

01:02:12

SPR profiling in these forensic cases? For what I'm not a next generation

01:02:17

sequencing expert,

01:02:18

but from what I know of it, it does take a little bit longer to process samples

01:02:23

using

01:02:24

next generation sequencing, even though you do get a lot more data. So, I guess

01:02:29

for me, I think

01:02:30

it may become more useful in the future, but I think for the majority of crimes

01:02:36

we may still be solving with SPRs and also possibly with rapid DNA as it

01:02:42

becomes more accepted into

01:02:45

the forensic community and the law enforcement community. I believe that more

01:02:49

crimes may actually

01:02:49

process B, process using SPRs with rapid DNA and maybe the more difficult, more

01:02:56

complicated crimes

01:02:58

where more information is needed, then I can see next generation sequencing

01:03:02

definitely being used

01:03:03

there. But that's just my opinion. I'm not an expert in next generation

01:03:06

sequencing.

01:03:07

All right. Thank you, Rob. Ryan, let's go ahead and get you involved in this.

01:03:12

We have a couple

01:03:13

questions for you. Ryan, how do you proficiency test those that are collecting

01:03:19

the evidence?

01:03:20

Thanks. So, the proficiency test is much like is done with normal proficiency

01:03:27

tests. They process

01:03:30

the samples, reference samples, or whatever it might be through the rapid, and

01:03:36

they do that

01:03:38

on a regular schedule. And they report the results through the normal means. So

01:03:45

it's just we really just integrate into our normal processing that they have to

01:03:49

use the rapid

01:03:50

as part of the proficiency testing schedule. Okay. Now, would a person using

01:03:57

the system need to be

01:03:58

qualified or certified in order to submit the samples? The samples are really

01:04:02

just collected

01:04:03

as they are normally. So, the same as any other samples are collected. So,

01:04:08

there's really no

01:04:08

testing of them or a qualification of them, other than initial training on how

01:04:12

to collect

01:04:13

evidence samples in terms of our detectives in the field. We go out and we

01:04:19

train our detectives

01:04:20

in the field on how to collect evidence samples, whether it be from a crime

01:04:23

scene or an item of

01:04:25

evidence that might be for touch DNA. So, other than that training, there's no

01:04:30

formal qualification.

01:04:32

Gotcha. Perfect. Thank you, Ryan. We have another question for Rob here. So, we

01:04:37

'll get you back

01:04:38

into the fold. Talking about the submerged bone data, have you run those

01:04:44

samples on the mini filer?

01:04:46

So, what was the profile like below 200B? So, we did not run a mini filer just

01:04:55

to know that using

01:04:57

traditional DNA methods. I may be, I'm not sure if it was clear in the slide.

01:05:01

We did get a full profile

01:05:03

with Global Filer using conventional DNA methods all the way up after seven

01:05:09

days. So, we never had

01:05:11

any issue with Global Filer. And I found a lot of labs have gone away from mini

01:05:18

filer because they

01:05:19

see how Global Filer, how great Global Filer works. So, we don't have mini fil

01:05:25

er. We have not

01:05:26

run it on mini filer, but Global Filer actually we got a full profile after

01:05:30

seven days being

01:05:30

submerged in the water. It was with a rapid ID is where we weren't getting

01:05:34

great data. But with

01:05:37

conventional DNA methods using the PrEPFiler BTA Express Kit and Global Filer

01:05:42

for amplification

01:05:44

and the 3500, we were able to get full DNA profile. Awesome. Thank you for that

01:05:49

information, Rob.

01:05:50

And unfortunately, audience, that's about all the time we have for the Q and A

01:05:54

today. But we would

01:05:56

like to thank our fantastic presenters, Dr. Garvey, Rob, and Ryan all for

01:06:02

joining us today,

01:06:03

as well as Thermo Fisher Scientific, the sponsor for today's webinar. In about

01:06:08

24 hours or less,

01:06:10

this webinar will be available on demand if you would like to watch it again or

01:06:14

share it with

01:06:16

friends and colleagues. Additionally, you will receive an email with

01:06:20

information on how to obtain

01:06:22

CE credit documentation for your participation today. The fourth webinar in the

01:06:28

2021 Future Trends

01:06:30

and Forensic DNA Technology will be held October 7th at 8am Pacific 11am

01:06:35

Eastern. You will be able

01:06:37

to register for that webinar on the forensic website, www.forembicmag.com. And

01:06:45

there you will

01:06:46

also be able to view other webinars in this series from the 2021 version and

01:06:51

the 2022 versions

01:06:52

on demand. Thank you so much to everybody today and we hope you have a

01:06:57

wonderful rest of your day.

01:06:59

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